Palestine, a Land virtually laid waste with little population

Hey Im on your side Im exposing goblins for the liberal/socialist/communist( in my mind their is no diffrence) that he is.

Really ..really good info...take a bow..your skills shine brightly today!

Faisal of Saudi Arabia was the prime mover in a seperate state for the Jews...even though under Balfour..Jews could immigrate anywhere in "Transjordan"..the Ruler of Mecca saw that the Muslim people should remain seperate from the Jews.

Sure He signed off on a homeland for the Jews...in his mind..they were not getting much at all...in fact..the reality was one of continued hardship...this reality pleased them...in that the Jews must remain seperate..and they should continue to have ..a hard going of it!

There are many prophetic references to what the conditions of the land would be when the Jews returned..and the narrative of success in transforming it under divine guidance.

Sons of Ishmael have never been anything more than violent men...robbers and cutthroats.

BAKHSHEESH..their code of business..bribery..blackmail and payoff.

When I see Camels (Gamel)..they always have voluminous amounts of white foam issuing from their mouths...clearly a sign of Rabies and madness..incurred from hanging with Ishmaeli for several thousands of years!

To this day..sons of Ishmael remain the same...Liers..theives and murders..it has nothing to do with overexposure to the hot mid-east sun..but everything to do with the spirit of SHIETUN...there lord and master!

Interesting research resource, re: Ezekial 37. FYI.

Dennis's post and Temple Mount pics at #6 kicks some serious booty, don't they?

Yes, they are pretty good.

Excellent post. History is the prime target of the purveyors of the 'Big Lie'. Until they have to show themselves for the book-burning Nazis that they are, these historical reviews will show their lies for what they are.

Regards,

Good posts!!! Nothing more to add here.

Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians

Robin McKie, science editor

Sunday November 25, 2001

The Observer

A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.

Academics who have already received copies of Human Immunology have been urged to rip out the offending pages and throw them away.

Such a drastic act of self-censorship is unprecedented in research publishing and has created widespread disquiet, generating fears that it may involve the suppression of scientific work that questions Biblical dogma.

'I have authored several hundred scientific papers, some for Nature and Science, and this has never happened to me before,' said the article's lead author, Spanish geneticist Professor Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, of Complutense University in Madrid. 'I am stunned.'

British geneticist Sir Walter Bodmer added: 'If the journal didn't like the paper, they shouldn't have published it in the first place. Why wait until it has appeared before acting like this?'

The journal's editor, Nicole Sucio-Foca, of Columbia University, New York, claims the article provoked such a welter of complaints over its extreme political writing that she was forced to repudiate it. The article has been removed from Human Immunology's website, while letters have been written to libraries and universities throughout the world asking them to ignore or 'preferably to physically remove the relevant pages'. Arnaiz- Villena has been sacked from the journal's editorial board.

Dolly Tyan, president of the American Society of Histocompatibility and Immunogenetics, which runs the journal, told subscribers that the society is 'offended and embarrassed'.

The paper, 'The Origin of Palestinians and their Genetic Relatedness with other Mediterranean Populations', involved studying genetic variations in immune system genes among people in the Middle East.

In common with earlier studies, the team found no data to support the idea that Jewish people were genetically distinct from other people in the region. In doing so, the team's research challenges claims that Jews are a special, chosen people and that Judaism can only be inherited.

Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East share a very similar gene pool and must be considered closely related and not genetically separate, the authors state. Rivalry between the two races is therefore based 'in cultural and religious, but not in genetic differences', they conclude.

But the journal, having accepted the paper earlier this year, now claims the article was politically biased and was written using 'inappropriate' remarks about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Its editor told the journal Nature last week that she was threatened by mass resignations from members if she did not retract the article.

Arnaiz-Villena says he has not seen a single one of the accusations made against him, despite being promised the opportunity to look at the letters sent to the journal.

He accepts he used terms in the article that laid him open to criticism. There is one reference to Jewish 'colonists' living in the Gaza strip, and another that refers to Palestinian people living in 'concentration' camps.

'Perhaps I should have used the words settlers instead of colonists, but really, what is the difference?' he said.

'And clearly, I should have said refugee, not concentration, camps, but given that I was referring to settlements outside of Israel - in Syria and Lebanon - that scarcely makes me anti- Jewish. References to the history of the region, the ones that are supposed to be politically offensive, were taken from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, and other text books.'

In the wake of the journal's actions, and claims of mass protests about the article, several scientists have now written to the society to support Arnaiz-Villena and to protest about their heavy-handedness.

One of them said: 'If Arnaiz-Villena had found evidence that Jewish people were genetically very special, instead of ordinary, you can be sure no one would have objected to the phrases he used in his article. This is a very sad business.'

Thursday, December 06, 2001

World Peace & Genetics:

Why Not?

LOS ANGELES, California—December 6, 2001 (OTVNewswire)— Elsevier Science calls itself the “market leader in the publication and dissemination of literature covering the broad spectrum of scientific endeavors.” It is part of Reed Elsevier, the British/Dutch global information provider and publisher. Last week, Elsevier Science asked libraries and subscribers to its Human Immunology magazine to tear out the pages of a report appearing in its current issue. Under threat of mass resignations by members of its New York staff, publisher Nicole Sucio-Foca, of New York’s Columbia University, agreed to the self-censorship. The research paper, written by Professor Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, is entitled “The Origin of Palestinians and Their Genetic Relatedness With Other Mediterranean Populations.”

According to Robin McKie of The Observer (London), the report showed that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical: “Such a drastic act of self-censorship is unprecedented in research publishing and has created widespread disquiet, generating fears that it may involve the suppression of scientific work that questions Biblical dogma.”

By studying genetic similarities among Middle Eastern populations, the report concluded that Palestinians and Jews of the region are closely related. But with bloodshed escalating in the real estate wars of the Middle East, such a theory has geo-political implications insofar as those wars are based, in large part, on Biblical claims of eminent domain.

The report has been yanked from Human Immunology’s website, as well as subsequent runs of hard copy editions. Notices of Retraction have been sent to all websites posting the offending article. The report’s author, Arnaiz-Villena, has been sacked from the journal's editorial board. Arnaiz-Villena, of Complutence University in Madrid, told The Observer, “I am stunned.”

Meanwhile, similar genetic research is being conducted throughout the world, many yielding the same results. Michael Hammer, a University of Arizona associate research scientist in the Arizona Research Laboratory, has been performing studies on the Y chromosome to help answer questions of Biblical significance related to the Jewish Diaspora, or dispersion of the Jewish people.

Hammer said that his research suggests that the world's Jewish populations closely resemble Syrians, Palestinians and Lebanese, indicating a common ancestry originating in the Middle East about 4,000 years ago.

At the University of California School of Medicine, San Francisco, Dr. Joel J. Elias, Professor (Emeritus) takes on the difficult task of presenting more scientific findings in his article The Genetics of Modern Assyrians and their Relationship to Other People of the Middle East.

Prof. L.L. Cavalli-Sforza, senior author of the landmark book "The History and Geography of Human Genes," came to the conclusion "that Jews have maintained considerable genetic similarity among themselves and with people from the Middle East, with whom they have common origins." Cavalli-Sforza is considered one of the preeminent human population geneticists in the world.

Results of direct DNA analysis of the Y chromosome showed that "Despite their long- term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level" and there was an "extremely close affinity of Jewish and non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations [Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, Druze, Saudi Arabians] observed here ...[that] supports the hypothesis of a common Middle Eastern origin" of these populations dating back about 4,000 years."

According to Elias: “The Palestinians and Syrians were so close to the Jews in genetic characteristics that they ‘mapped within the central cluster of Jewish populations.’"

As one of the Israeli scientists on the team said, “Eventually people will realize that they are not that different,” leaving Professor Elias to ponder the notion: “Peace through Genetics?”

Dr. Harry Ostrer, a researcher in the Department of Genetics at New York University Medical School, contends that while the Ashkenazi Jews are not very close genetically to European gentiles, they are genetically close to some Arab groups.

Reinforcing this evidence is a study by Aravinda Chakravarti, director of the McKusick-Nathans Institute of Genetic Medicine at Johns Hopkins University, who found that a certain genetic mutation causing deafness, DFNB1, affects Jews, Palestinians and other groups of the Mediterranean. Recognizing the historical ramifications of this study, Dr. Ostrer pointed out that Jews and Palestinians probably had common ancestors not so long ago. "It's commonly believed among historians that many of the people that became Palestinian Arabs were once Jewish," he said.

According to David Pollack of the Forward, the irony was not lost on Dr. Ostrer: "The Arabs don't happen to 'remember' that anymore," he said, pointing to the hostilities of Arab groups toward Israel. He was also able, however, to see the situation from the opposite perspective. "Conversely, maybe if the Israelis 'remembered' [that the Arabs used to be Jews], they'd be nicer to them."

Indeed, by repressing Arnaiz-Villena’s research paper, Elsevier Science may have deprived the very “science” it promotes from achieving one of science’s more lofty goals -- that of making the world a better place to live.

There is no reason whatsoever that the genetic relationship between Jews and Arabs should be axed or hidden. Indeed, the biggest anti-zionists, the Arabs, have fed on a steady diet of deconstructionist propaganda suggesting that European Jewish immigrants have no semitism in them. This was shown to be false. Then of course there is the 44% of Jews and their decendants who fled Arab Islamic lands which make up Israel these are ones who remained as diaspora Jews largely in isolation from their neighbours for hundreds and even thousands of years. The issue is not the genetic relationship, which is a given. The issue is that the Pan Arabists, who were responsible for the last great diaspora of Jews from Palestine during the Jihads of the 7th century and following, will not accept a non-dhimmiized Jew in their midst since that was the status of the Jew (as dhimmi) ever since Mohammed entered into the dhimma with the Jews at the Khaybar oasis.

Published online before print May 9, 2000, 10.1073/pnas.100115997;
Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 97, Issue 12, 6769-6774, June 6, 2000

Abstract of this Article

Reprint (PDF) Version of this Article

Medical Sciences
Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

M. F. Hammer^*^,^,, A. J. Redd^*^,, E. T. Wood^*^,, M. R. Bonner^*, H. Jarjanazi^*, T. Karafet^*, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti^¶, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling^**, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir^§

^* Laboratory of Molecular Systematics and Evolution, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721; ^¶ Department of Genetics, Università degli Studi di Pavia, Pavia 27100, Italy; Hadassah Medical School, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem 91120, Israel; ^** Department of Genetics, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, England; SAMIR, University of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg 2000, South Africa; Department of Pediatrics, New York University Medical Center, New York, NY 10016; and ^§ Department of Human Genetics, Sackler School of Medicine, Ramat Aviv 69978, Israel

Communicated by Arno G. Motulsky, University of Washington, Seattle, WA, March 15, 2000 (received for review November 17, 1999)

	Abstract

	Top Abstract Introduction Subjects and Methods Results Discussion References

Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African,Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewishgroups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populationswere characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that werealso present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, andEurope. A series of analyses was performed to address whethermodern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a commonMiddle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboringnon-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora. Despitetheir long-term residence in different countries and isolationfrom one another, most Jewish populations were not significantlydifferent from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimatessuggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenaziand Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plotplaced six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tightcluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations,including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation testsfurther indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewishpopulations were not statistically different. The results supportthe hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communitiesfrom Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended froma common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest thatmost Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated fromneighboring non-Jewish communities during and after theDiaspora.

	Introduction

	Top Abstract Introduction Subjects and Methods Results Discussion References

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago.The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of majordispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and thedevelopment of various Jewish communities outside of present-dayIsrael (1). Today, Jews belong to several communities thatcan be classified according to the location where each communitydeveloped. Among others, these include the Middle Eastern communitiesof former Babylonia and Palestine, the Jewish communities of NorthAfrica and the Mediterranean Basin, and Ashkenazi communitiesof central and eastern Europe. The history of the Jewish Diaspora $---$ thenumerous migrations of Jewish populations and their subsequentresidence in various countries in Europe, North Africa, and WestAsia $---$ has resulted in a complex set of genetic relationships amongJewish populations and their non-Jewish neighbors. Several studieshave attempted to describe these genetic relationships and tounravel the numerous evolutionary factors that have come intoplay during the Diaspora (2-11). Some of the key arguments inthe literature concern the relative contributions of common ancestry,genetic drift, natural selection, and admixture leading to theobserved similarities and differences among Jewish and non-Jewishcommunities.

Given the complex history of migration, can Jews be traced to a single Middle Eastern ancestry, or are present-day Jewishcommunities more closely related to non-Jewish populations fromthe same geographic area? Some genetic studies suggest that Jewishpopulations show substantial non-Jewish admixture and the occurrenceof mass conversion of non-Jews to Judaism (2, 3, 10, 12).In contrast, other research points to considerably greater geneticsimilarity among Jewish communities with only slight gene flowfrom their respective host populations (5, 7, 9, 11,13). Furthermore, it has been demonstrated that the degree ofgenetic similarity among Jewish communities and between Jewishand non-Jewish populations depends on the particular locus thatis being investigated (4, 8, 11). This observation raisesthe possibility that variation associated with a given locus hasbeen influenced by naturalselection.

All of the aforementioned investigations used "classical" genetic markers such as blood groups, enzymes, and serum proteins,as well as immunoglobulins and the HLA system. More recently,restriction fragment length polymorphism studies were initiatedby using mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), the nonrecombining portionof the Y chromosome (NRY), and other nuclear loci (14-20). An advantageof nucleotide-level studies is that they circumvent some of thecomplications associated with selection; however, these studieshave not fully resolved many of the key issues in the earlierliterature.

Analyses of mtDNA and the NRY are especially relevant to studies of Jewish origins because, according to ancient Jewish law,Jewish religious affiliation is assigned maternally (1). Inparticular, studies of paternally inherited variation providethe opportunity to assess the genetic contribution of non-Jewishmales to present-day Jewish genetic diversity. This research representsone of the first comparisons of biallelic variation on the NRYin Jewish and non-Jewish populations from similar geographic areas.We surveyed 18 biallelic polymorphisms in 7 Jewish and 22 non-Jewishpopulations from Europe, the Middle East, and Africa to assessthe relative contributions of common ancestry, gene flow, andgenetic drift in shaping patterns of NRY variation in populationsof the JewishDiaspora.

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

I didn't know that. Radical Islam is dangerous and virulent. The best defense against it is probably a good dose of Western Philosophy. Descartes, Bertrand Russell, and, to really finish off their weird verbal pathology, Language, Truth and Logic by Alfred Ayer. It wouldn't hurt to throw in some arabic translations of Deridda.

I didn't know that. Radical Islam is dangerous and virulent. The best defense against it is probably a good dose of Western Philosophy. Descartes, Bertrand Russell, and, to really finish off their weird verbal pathology, Language, Truth and Logic by Alfred Ayer. It wouldn't hurt to throw in some arabic translations of Deridda.

Ahhh, rationalism, logical empiricism, etc., yes definitely. However, here's the problem with Islam in general, historically, with respect to Western ideas from Bernard Lewis in his book, The Arabs In History,p. 139:

The acceptance of the Greek heritage by Islam gave rise to a struggle between the scientific rationalist tendency of the new learning on the one hand, and the atomistic and intuituve quality of Islamic thought on the other. During the period of struggle Muslims of both schools created a rich and varied culture, much of which is of permanent importance in the history of mankind. The struggle ended in the victory of the more purely Islamic point of view. Islam, a religiously conditioned society, rejected values that challenged its fundamental postulates, while accepting their results, and even developing them by experiment and observation. Ismailism - the revolution marquee of Islam - might have ushered in a full acceptance of Hellenistic values, heralding a humanist renaissance of the Western type, overcoming the resistance of the Quaran by the device of esoteric interpretation, of the Shari'a by the unbounded discretion of the infallible Imam. But the forces supporting the Ismaili revolution were not strong enough, and it failed in the very moment of its greatest success.

:

The best way to teach western philosophy (in order to kill radical islam) is to have people read it in the original. Read it 4-6 times and discuss it in detail. Have it as a requirement in University. Of course, nobody should be forced to believe in it. But they should be encouraged to at least understand it if they want a University degree.

I'm not sure what you want me to conclude from this post. This caught my eye...

In common with earlier studies, the team found no data to support the idea that Jewish people were genetically distinct from other people in the region. In doing so, the team's research challenges claims that Jews are a special, chosen people and that Judaism can only be inherited.
Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East share a very similar gene pool and must be considered closely related and not genetically separate, the authors state. Rivalry between the two races is therefore based 'in cultural and religious, but not in genetic differences', they conclude.

The Bible doesn't claim that the Jews are genetically distinct from the surrounding neighbors. Lot was Abraham's nephew, Ishamel was Abraham's son, and Esau was Jacob's brother who married a daughter of Ishmael. These are just a few of the forerunners of the Semitic non-Israelites mentioned in the Bible.

How would this study undermine the idea that the Jews are God's Chosen People, if it only confirms what the Bible concedes? Seems to me, if anything, it would be the other way around... Science confirming yet again some aspect of what the Bible says about Israel.

Rave on nutter! You are some kinda wonerful. What kind no one knows.

Hey, thanks for the heads up! Very illuminating, and informative thread. I'll read Ezekiel 37 tonight.

What's 'wonerful'?

But, yeah, for an ignoramus like you who probably never even finished high school, references to famous western philosophers of the 20th century must seem like the ravings of a nutter.

This book was discredited shortly after it was printed and was a total embarrassment to the author.

Says who? ... Edward Said?

The embarrassment was to the Palestinian propaganda machine which made a feeble and totally unconvincing attempt at discrediting it.

You got links to reviews in genuine scholarly publications that back up your claims? Otherwise, your remarks are totally without interest.

Unfortunately for the palestinian arabs God hasn't seen fit to give then a homeland of their own that they can make a break for

But the British did so in 1922 - today its called Jordan but it comprises 78% of historic Palestine and >90% of the population are "Palestinians".

In 1948 the UN divided what was left (UN Resolution 181) of Palestine between Arabs and Jews but the Arabs rejected it and went to war instead.

Medical Sciences Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Medical Sciences
Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes