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To: SoothingDave;connectthedots
So, using your test, we need to be absolutely sure that the priest has no sin before we can be sure if the sacrament is valid. Or we can realize, correctly, that the state of the man performing the Mass does not affect its efficaciousness.

Not in the least - we are however expecting these perverts in these TRUSTED, HOLY positions to enter into the arrangement and continue the service to Christ and maintain a pious walk.

A Pious daily walk does not include molesting children.

I'm sorry you don't understand the concept. Indeed, a priest who just yelled at a staff member unjustly, or had a prideful thought, or told a small lie is not worthy to touch the Body and Blood.

You compare little sins to big sins and neglect where the heart lies in both.

Yelling at a staff member might be unjust, however I hazard a guess and say his retention of grace is strong. A priest whole molests boys has NO evidence of grace in his life.

A priest who just diddled a 12 year old and then gave Holy Mass and served the Blood and Body, completes the Mass and repeats the situation is violating the tenets and oaths of his position, performing blaspheme against Christ and His bride. To say he is in a right walk and a right frame of mind while performing his priestly duties is plainly assinine. Additionally, these are men which have set themselves apart from the world to serve Christ. Is serving then a duty, or a treasured honor?

Its an honor of course - No disrespect meant, but such an attitude as yours condones the behavior and makes you an apologist.

In addition, a priest in such a "walk" claims to be honoring the Altar & assert pious authority (when it fact the opposite is true) Christ is not served and satan has gained access to your pulpit. Which reinforces my claim that any Altar work by the Priest who is in such a condition is fraudulent and deceptive not only to Christ and the Church, but the congregation as well, further aiding the contention that ritualism in the sacraments, not Christ is being served.

37 posted on 01/09/2002 8:04:18 AM PST by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
Not in the least - we are however expecting these perverts in these TRUSTED, HOLY positions to enter into the arrangement and continue the service to Christ and maintain a pious walk. A Pious daily walk does not include molesting children.

I agree. It is a sick and twisted individual who does such things.

You compare little sins to big sins and neglect where the heart lies in both. Yelling at a staff member might be unjust, however I hazard a guess and say his retention of grace is strong. A priest whole molests boys has NO evidence of grace in his life.

A priest does not need evidence of grace in order to validly perform sacraments. It is not about him, it is about Jesus.

My point was that any serious sin makes us unworthy to receive Communion. But such sin does not make a priest no longer a priest, until such a determination is made by the Church.

Does this mean that a priest can consecrate the Eucharistic elements but be unworthy to then consume them. Yes.

A priest who just diddled a 12 year old and then gave Holy Mass and served the Blood and Body, completes the Mass and repeats the situation is violating the tenets and oaths of his position, performing blaspheme against Christ and His bride. To say he is in a right walk and a right frame of mind while performing his priestly duties is plainly assinine. Additionally, these are men which have set themselves apart from the world to serve Christ. Is serving then a duty, or a treasured honor?

Again I agree that such a person is violating his position. I never said he is in a "right walk" and in a "right frame of mind." I said that he is still a valid priest and can perform sacraments.

Of coruse I believe that such an individual should be removed from the priesthood as well as jailed. But we can not, until this determination is made, put into doubt every sacrament performed by every priest in the world. It is the recipe for chaos.

When a man is made a priest, he is changed. He is capable of acting as a channel for Jesus to make His sacraments present for us. If we have to wonder about the state of the soul of each man, then we could never be sure of any sacrament. That's why the state of the soul is entirely irrelevant. It is Jesus acting, not the priest.

Its an honor of course - No disrespect meant, but such an attitude as yours condones the behavior and makes you an apologist.

Why thank you. You did mean that I attempt to explain and defend the Faith, right? I am not apologizing for the behavior of a pedophile, or excusing it. It repulses me. But that is not the issue at all. Whether a priest's sacraments are valid or not depending on whether he sinned or not is.

SD

42 posted on 01/09/2002 8:19:45 AM PST by SoothingDave
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