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FLIGHT 587 WITNESSES BLAST FEDS
New York Post | January 7, 2002 | John Lehmann

Posted on 01/07/2002 10:09:49 AM PST by Beach_Babe

New Yorkers who believe they saw American Airlines Flight 587 explode in flames before its tail sheared off have accused crash investigators of ignoring their eyewitness accounts and prematurely ruling out a terrorist attack.

Six witnesses, including a recently retired police lieutenant, an FDNY deputy chief and a former firefighter, have written to the National Transportation Safety Board demanding they be called to testify at a public hearing.

Tom Lynch, 59, a retired firefighter, said he had also spoken to 18 other people who saw the Airbus A300 flying on fire before it crashed into houses in Belle Harbor, Queens, on Nov. 12, killing 265 people.

"The NTSB is not publicly acknowledging the many eyewitness accounts of the in-flight fire or explosion, many from people who are adamant that the fire occurred before any tail or engine breakups," he told The Post.

Lynch, who organized the letter, said he was standing on Rockaway Beach Boulevard when he saw a bright orange ball of flame streaming from the right side of the plane.

Two or three seconds later, he said, he saw a larger eruption of flames consuming the entire right side of the plane's fuselage.

"There were no falling parts until the second explosion of flames - I'll go to my grave with that," he said.

The witnesses said they were surprised NTSB Chairwoman Marion Blakey was able to say, only hours after the crash, that all indications pointed to an accident, rather than a terrorist attack.

"How could that statement be made while the flight-data recorder had not been recovered, the crash-investigation team had not yet showed up and initial eyewitness reports included many accounts of one or two explosions in flight?" Lynch said.

Another witness not involved with Lynch's group, Michael Benjamin, said he saw a huge orange fire engulfing the front third of the plane's right side while he was driving along Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn with his wife and two children.

Benjamin, who works for the Oversight, Analysis and Investigations Committee of the state Assembly, said he had attempted to contact the NTSB but had not received a return call.

Preliminary reports written by the NTSB have not mentioned in-flight explosions, but have focused on air turbulence, the composite materials used to build the jet's vertical tail, and sudden rudder movements.

An NTSB spokesman said more than 200 eyewitness accounts had been recorded and were being considered as part of the investigation.

But he said if the NTSB decided to conduct a public hearing, it would most likely seek opinions from air-safety and aeronautical-design experts rather than witnesses.

The people who signed the letter, in addition to Lynch, are retired NYPD Officer James Conrad, FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden, retired transit cop Richard Kvies, sales manager John Power and food-services manager Ellie Scholfield.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aaflight587; twa800list
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To: Chad
bttt
81 posted on 01/21/2002 7:50:14 PM PST by timestax
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To: timestax
These threads get a little attention then die. Seems there's a very limited subset of FReepers interested in this stuff...pro and con.

Oh, well, worth a BUMP, IMHO...

82 posted on 01/21/2002 7:58:00 PM PST by copycat
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To: tberry
I am part of the organization that makes and stores those munitions and let me tell you, they are going fast and in the future it would be difficult to sustain what we are doing in Afghanistan mush less fight a really capable enemy.

So it's true that most of America's munitions are being used up without being replaced? In your opinion?

83 posted on 01/21/2002 8:06:58 PM PST by copycat
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To: Pearls Before Swine
bump
84 posted on 01/21/2002 10:18:43 PM PST by timestax
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To: MissAmericanPie
"...the jig is up, they are busted and no one believes them anymore."

You're absolutely right about that. Do you think perhaps the cover-up is to "protect the economy"?

I am weary of our being lied to by government spokesmen. After 8 years of Klinton lies I hoped we'd have a clean administration with GW at the helm. Apparently I hoped in vain.

85 posted on 01/21/2002 10:33:46 PM PST by Dixielander
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To: copycat
I suspect but cannot prove the lack of posts is due to the viciousness of the debunkers. I don't know how many of the early 587 threads you read - but the people attacking those who pointed out the utter ridiculousness of the early govt/media "spinscams" were really loose with their bile. Some decent FReepers may have decided "I don't have to take this kind of abuse on FR - I get enough at home!"
86 posted on 01/21/2002 10:45:48 PM PST by 185JHP
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To: 185JHP
I suspect but cannot prove the lack of posts is due to the viciousness of the debunkers. I don't know how many of the early 587 threads you read - but the people attacking those who pointed out the utter ridiculousness of the early govt/media "spinscams" were really loose with their bile. Some decent FReepers may have decided "I don't have to take this kind of abuse on FR - I get enough at home!"

That probably plays a strong role in making these threads fall into the Memory Hopper early. It's not a conspiracy per se, just the viciousness of the True Believers (of all sides, I might add). I don't like to read some of these threads after they get into the heavy firing.

I don't know what the solution is, but certainly we need to keep "alternative" theories in the public (or at least FReep) eye. I am engaged in the search for Truth, both professionally and personally, and there is no way that Truth can be found coming down from on high. It's only through the competition of theories in public debate that Truth can be found.

87 posted on 01/22/2002 12:42:43 AM PST by Chemist_Geek
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To: narby
bump
88 posted on 01/22/2002 10:14:34 AM PST by timestax
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To: Pearls Before Swine
bttt
89 posted on 01/22/2002 2:14:18 PM PST by timestax
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To: KQQL
bttt
90 posted on 01/22/2002 2:24:22 PM PST by timestax
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To: Chemist_Geek
Excellent points. With some of the posters, if they're autopsied, the autopsy will reveal a spleen riddled with vents. They practice malice and sucker-punching in a place where they can hide from any meaningful costs. Civility isn't that common in 2002. But OTOH there are wonderful people who post on FR. One of them is worth a hundred of the human filth. I don't agree with Kris Kristoferson's politics - but I do like what has been reported he chose for an epitaph: "The goin' up was worth the comin' down." FReegards Cat.
91 posted on 01/22/2002 9:24:05 PM PST by 185JHP
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To: copycat
"In your opinion?"

Definitely

92 posted on 01/23/2002 7:51:39 AM PST by tberry
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To: 185JHP
I don't know how many of the early 587 threads you read - but the people attacking those who pointed out the utter ridiculousness of the early govt/media "spinscams" were really loose with their bile.

I agree totally. Meanwhile those who bought the government line set to work obscuring the forest with trees. Like endless arguments over whether the A300 was fly by wire.

YO, it doesn't matter...the two EXPLOSIONS would have crashed it anyway.

I especially love the "Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable." Like Americans going about their buisness that day had some reason to lie...

FReegards...

93 posted on 01/23/2002 2:13:27 PM PST by copycat
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To: copycat
Thanks.
94 posted on 01/23/2002 7:52:39 PM PST by 185JHP
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To: timestax
bttt
95 posted on 01/28/2002 3:15:37 PM PST by timestax
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To: OldFriend
bump
96 posted on 01/29/2002 7:16:42 AM PST by timestax
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To: tberry
I personally believe that the only reason we are fighting after 9-11 is that the attack was so public that the government could not cover it up. There have been so many disaster that have seemed deliberate to the public but because of the government controlling the dissemination of information they go into history as accident.

It has been stated before, but it bears repeating...

If there was only one plane that crashed on 9/11, I have NO doubt that we would have been told it was an accident. And if the shoe bomber would have been successful, we would NO doubt be told that it was an accident as well. Are people out there too stupid to put these "coincidences" together that Flt 587 crashed in much the same way that the flight the shoe bomber was on would have?

Perhaps the stupidest thing the terrorists did was perform multiple acts of terror all on the same day, removing the possibility for the gov't to call it an accident. If they would have spread them out over a period of time, we would have been told that every thing was fine, just an accident here or there and there would be NO war on terror.

97 posted on 01/29/2002 8:01:10 AM PST by Frank Grimes
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To: Frank Grimes
Wednesday January 30 5:53 PM ET
American Pulls A300s From Some Routes
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - American Airlines stopped flying Airbus A300s on transatlantic routes on Wednesday, saying it would immediately follow through with its plan to use other wide-body aircraft on those runs.

The airline said the move involving 10 aircraft was an acceleration of already announced plans, and was not related to safety questions arising from the crash of an American A300-600 in November in New York that killed 265 people.

American, a unit of AMR Corp. (NYSE:AMR - news), said the last of its Airbus (ARBU.UL) aircraft dedicated to transatlantic service flew from Boston's Logan airport to London's Heathrow airport on Wednesday.

John Hotard, a spokesman for the U.S.-based airline, said the carrier would boost seating capacity on those planes and use them for domestic and Caribbean service.

The company said in May it had planned to replace the A300s on transatlantic routes with Boeing Co. (NYSE:BA - news) 767 and 777 aircraft by the end of 2003.

But because of schedule cuts after Sept. 11, the airline said there were enough 767s and 777s available to complete the switch now.

The airline vigorously denied the move was in any way related to recent calls by dozens of Airbus pilots at the airline to ground the A300s because of unanswered safety questions.

U.S. safety investigators probing the crash of the AmericanA300-600 are focusing on potential mechanical problems, a possible structural flaw with the tail fin, and actions by the crew.

Flight 587 bound for the Dominican Republic crashed Nov. 12 in a residential area shortly after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport. All 260 aboard were killed as were five on the ground.

The decision to complete the transition of the 10 A300s by the end of January was made in December, Hotard said.

American said its fleet of 34 A300s are better suited to domestic routes and service to the Caribbean and Latin America because of their range and capacity.

The airline said it would temporarily take the 10 A300s out of service to boost seating capacity from 178 to 232 on each plane. This is done by removing the business class seats needed for transatlantic flights.

``Any suggestion that the Airbuses are being put on the ground for any other reason is completely and categorically untrue,'' the airline said in a statement.

http://www.100megspop3.com/bark/800WitFlblty.html

98 posted on 01/31/2002 8:50:55 AM PST by Asmodeus
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To: Beach_Babe
bttt
99 posted on 02/27/2002 9:23:17 AM PST by timestax
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To: Beach_Babe
bump to the top please....
100 posted on 02/27/2002 11:34:15 AM PST by timestax
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