The Real Danger of a Presidential Faker: Post-9/11 Reconsideration of The Placebo Presidency

The Sunday Times (U.K.) ^ | 1.6.02 | Mia T

[Hurtgen]

Unfortunately, there is no conceivable way to pack 150 in a C-130. Been there, done that and it can't be done.

There must be a rest of the story somewhere.

[gaspar]

I repeat, Osama Bin Laden was under indictment for the Trade Center bombing and his name was submitted by the US Government as a co-conspirator in February 1995 in the trail of US v. Omar Ahmad Ali Abdel Rahman, et. al., (S5) 93 Cr. 181 (MBM) held in New York. The United States could legally have called for and accepted his extradition any time after that event. Thus the FBI, administration satrap, and Clinton claims that they didn't have the legal instrument or the proof to go after Bin Laden is a lie.

[no-s]

Hmm. What is the payload of a c-130? 35000-45000 lb? If a c-130 will hold 90+ equipped combat troops why not a party of 150 consisting primarily of women, children, and household goods? IANACM but I've been inside a c-130 before and there looks like enough room.

[Leisler]

Like the trucks they drive overthere they overload everything. I suspect they got say 100 inside and the rest uptop on the wing root.

[Hurtgen]

I've been in many myself, and for the life of me can't see getting much more than the 92 listed below,especially if they've brought any suitcases etc. Using the data below that gives each person a 21x21 inch square to crouch in.

Cargo Compartment: C-130E/H/J: length, 40 feet (12.31 meters); width, 119 inches (3.12 meters); height, 9 feet (2.74 meters). Rear ramp: length, 123 inches (3.12 meters); width, 119 inches (3.02 meters) Maximum Load: C-130E/H/J: 6 pallets or 74 litters or 16 CDS bundles or 92 combat troops or 64 paratroopers, or a combination of any of these up to the cargo compartment capacity or maximum allowable weight.

[Leisler]

....oh, yea, I forgot, wheel wells could each take 15 or so small people each. Plus the forward well for say another 5. Then if you use the rear loading ramp to say "squeeze", well it aint the Concord but beats a camel.

[no-s]

Well, I figured it would be tight, and unpleasant, and not impossible. Plus it's only an estimate and based on a news report. Therefore I do not think there is a credibility gap exposed here.

That's my point.

[Leisler]

I was just kidding. Don't pay attention to anything I say.

[Mia T]

Bin Laden took off from Khartoum on May 18 in a chartered C-130 plane with 150 of his followers, including his wives. He was bound for Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan. On the way the plane refuelled in the Gulf state of Qatar, which has friendly relations with Washington, but he was allowed to proceed unhindered.

US missed three chances to seize Bin Laden

Unfortunately, there is no conceivable way to pack 150 in a C-130. Been there, done that and it can't be done.

There must be a rest of the story somewhere.

2 posted on 1/6/02 7:54 AM Pacific by Hurtgen

On the contrary, the C-130 Hercules is the perfect tactical transport for the polygamous, philoprogenitive terrorist cum entourage escaping from hostile territory of minimal infrastructure.

Using its aft loading ramp and door, the C-130 can accommodate a wide variety of oversized cargo, including everything from a 6' 5" terrorist to standard palletized, burqaed women, children and terrorist associates. In an aerial delivery role, it can air drop loads up to 42,000 pounds or use its high-floatation landing gear to land and deliver cargo on rough, dirt strips.

Moreover, the flexible design of the Hercules enables it to be rapidly reconfigured should the 6' 5" polygamous, philoprogenitive terrorist cum entourage acquire additional palletized, burqaed wives, children or terrorist associates on the fly (so to speak).

Specifications

Primary Function: Tactical and intratheater airlift
Contractor: Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company
Power Plant: C-130E: Four Allison T56-A-7 turboprops; 4,200 prop shaft horsepower
C-130H: Four Allison T56-A-15 turboprops; 4,591prop shaft horsepower
C-130J: Four Rolls-Royce AE 2100D3 turboprops; 4,591 horsepower
Length: C-130E/H/J: 97 feet, 9 inches (29.3 meters)
C-130J-30: 112 feet, 9 inches (34.69 meters)
Height: 38 feet, 3 inches (11.4 meters)
Wingspan: 132 feet, 7 inches (39.7 meters)
Cargo Compartment: C-130E/H/J: length, 40 feet (12.31 meters); width, 119 inches (3.12 meters); height, 9 feet (2.74 meters). Rear ramp: length, 123 inches (3.12 meters); width, 119 inches (3.02 meters)
C-130J-30: length, 55 feet (16.9 meters); width, 119 inches (3.12 meters); height, 9 feet (2.74 meters). Rear ramp: length, 123 inches (3.12 meters); width, 119 inches (3.02 meters)
Speed: C-130E: 345 mph/300 ktas (Mach 0.49) at 20,000 feet (6,060 meters)
C-130H: 366 mph/318 ktas (Mach 0.52) at 20,000 feet (6,060 meters)
C-130J: 417 mph/362 ktas (Mach 0.59) at 22,000 feet (6,706 meters)
C-130J-30: 410 mph/356 ktas (Mach 0.58) at 22,000 feet (6,706 meters)
Ceiling: 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) with 45,000 pounds (17,716 kilograms) payload
Maximum Takeoff Weight: C-130E/H/J: 155,000 pounds (69,750 kilograms)
C-130J-30: 164,000 pounds (74,393 kilograms)
Maximum Allowable Payload: C-130E, 45,050 pounds (20,434 kilograms); C-130H, 43,550 pounds (19,754 kilograms); C-130J, 46,631 pounds (21,151 kilograms); C-130J-30, 46,812 pounds (21,234 kilograms)
Maximum Normal Payload: C-130E, 36,720 pounds (16,656 kilograms); C-130H, 35,220 pounds (15,976 kilograms); C-130J, 38,301 pounds (17,373 kilograms); C-130J-30, 38,812 pounds (17,605 kilograms)
Range at Maximum Normal Payload: C-130E, 1,838 miles (1,597 nautical miles); C-130H, 2,006 miles (1,743 nautical miles); C-130J, 2,729 miles (2,371 nautical miles); C-130J-30, 2,897 miles (2,517 nautical miles)
Range with 35,000 pounds of Payload: C-130E, 1,968 miles (1,710 nautical miles); C-130H, 2,023 miles (1,758 nautical miles); C-130J, 3,062 miles (2,660 nautical miles); C-130J-30, 3,269 miles (2,830 nautical miles)
Maximum Load: C-130E/H/J: 6 pallets of 300 children or 150 burqaed wives or 100 terrorists, or a combination of any of these up to the cargo compartment capacity or maximum allowable weight.
C-130J-30: 8 pallets or 97 litters or 24 CDS bundles or 128 combat troops or 92 paratroopers, or a combination of any of these up to the cargo compartment capacity or maximum allowable weight.
Crew: C-130E/H: Five (two pilots, navigator, flight engineer and loadmaster)
C-130J/J-30: Three (two pilots and loadmaster)
Aeromedical Evacuation Role: Minimum medical crew of three is added (one flight nurse and two medical technicians). Medical crew may be increased to two flight nurses and four medical technicians as required by the needs of the patients.
Unit Cost: C-130E, $11.9, C-130H, $30.1, C-130J, $48.5 (FY 1998 constant dollars in millions)
Date Deployed: C-130A, Dec 1956; C-130B, May 1959; C-130E, Aug 1962; C-130H, Jun 1974; C-130J, Feb 1999
Inventory: Active force, 186; Air National Guard, 217; Air Force Reserve, 107

 

 

[Mia T]

Q ERTY6 palletized, burqaed women, children & terrorist associates PING!

MIDI - LONG COOL WOMAN IN A BLACK DRESS

She was a short squatty woman in a burqa…oh, my goodness, she smelled like my goat
I'm scared of what's inside that burqa…and my words you certainly may quote

-- doug from upland

Bravo, doug.

A knockoff? Similar stench, similar silhouette, similar scheme...

[Mia T]

Q ERTY6 palletized, burqaed women, children & terrorist associates PING!

MIDI - LONG COOL WOMAN IN A BLACK DRESS

She was a short squatty woman in a burqa…oh, my goodness, she smelled like my goat
I'm scared of what's inside that burqa…and my words you certainly may quote

-- doug from upland

Bravo, doug.

A knockoff? Similar stench, similar silhouette, similar scheme...

[Squantos]

During the Evac of Saigon in April of 75 I saw the capacity for numbers of passengers exceeded to a point I didn't think possible for even the greatest aircraft ever made.........C-130 BTTT !!

Stay Safe Mia T !!

[aculeus]

Excellent!

[f.Christian]

Freedom is Just Another Word for Nothing Left to Lose

There is no sane respectful attempt to address, or admit, the serious reality of the situation. It should be a matter of legitimate serious concern that we have two brat graduates from 60s and 70s pathology with some very serious mental problems in the White House. We have people with very serious mental problems supporting them. They have thrust their psychotic inner theater of the absurd upon the nation, and there's not sufficient cultural integrity or sanity left to stop or counterbalance it.

Such is the evolved state of post-60s psychotic America.

The effect of the mental health crisis on the politics and government of this country has been both subtle and powerfully catastrophic.

First: The political atmosphere has become psychotic in that it follows no logic, consistency, or sense of reality. We have people in high office who are defiantly silly supported by defiantly silly constituents. There is no sense of the serious real. To some extent, what we have is goofy middle-aged kids who don't understand they are destroying the country, or couldn't care less.

Second: Personal and political freedom affords an exercise in vitality to a mentally healthy person. But, to someone who is depressed or preoccupied by internal turmoil, freedom becomes an unenjoyable useless quantity. Consequently, we now live in a society where many people no longer want or value freedom. Personal freedom and the responsibility that goes with it are abrasive intrusions or demands upon a crippled self-absorbed internal state.

Freedom has become transformed from a chance for opportunity, to being a threat to a depressive or confused inner personal condition. To a hospitalized schizophrenic, freedom is useless or unwanted. To many people, not hospitalized, but imprisoned or sentenced to psychological solitary confinement by their own internal pathological state, outside imprisonment or oppression is inconsequential or even welcomed. We are facing the serious problem that the mental health in this society is so degraded as to cause America's opportunities and economic advantages to be viewed as irrelevant.

Freedom in this country has come to be the equivalent of good food on a bad psychological tooth.

Demands for simple basic responsibility and maturity have become looked upon as impossible or as repressive as a oppressive communist society. Freedom and socialism/communism have become either subjectively equivalent, or the second preferable to the first if it promises a world of custodial care.

Until the mental health problems are culturally addressed, instead of culturally proselytized for the self-indulgence they offer, freedom and opportunity will be viewed as irrelevant, or even the enemy, in this society.

Third: The mental health crisis in this country has propelled us into the politics of torture, struggle, and torment. In my political life I want roads and bridges that are in good condition. I want national defense. I want competent educational systems that produce competent graduates. I want to hear understanding of rational monetary and economic analysis. I want to hear candidates articulating the principles of a free society. I want office holders who act with seriousness, honesty, and respect.

What is instead occurring is a political contest to see which candidate's form of mental disorder resonates with prevalent forms of mental disorder in the general population. Bill Clinton says he feels people's pain. Hillary Clinton is poised to snap up a seat as Senator from New York, and possibly the presidency, on the essential platform that the mess she has made of her personal life, and her angry warped rationalizations of it, resonate with the confused mess other people have made of their lives. People identify with Hillary's image of struggle, with her constant empty angry dynamism, and with her posturing and confrontational indignation. Bill and Hillary's empty marital relationship and sterility produce emotional resonance in millions of others leading similar lives with similar incapacities in an emotionally turbulent generation that has had a 60+ percent divorce rate and a 32 percent out-of-wedlock birth rate. Her pathology feeds into the prevalence of pathology in America.

Hillary Clinton's qualification for any serious position would be considered ludicrous in a healthy rational society. To those increasingly few of us remaining who do not view posturing infantile temper tantrums as a form of intellectual brilliance, Hillary is not a particularly intelligent, talented, or deep woman. With the possible exception of abortion and allied 60s radical countercultural agenda that appeal to those who have never left, or grown beyond, 60s and 70s perpetually angry adolescence, Hillary Clinton has shown absolutely no knowledge of anything. But while abortion, internal sexual conflicts, and crummy shack jobs or marriages may be a personal obsession to many people in this country, they are not what makes this country run. Yet, every poll shows Hillary could walk into a state where she has never lived and be swept into office by a landslide ¾ entirely on the basis of alliance between her own and other people's personal problems, angry immaturity, mental disorders, and incompetence, without a demonstrated word of knowledge about anything that really makes the nation work.

Undoubtedly, handlers would feed her a cram course of superficial babble about military tactics and strategy, economic policy, geopolitics, or other areas to get her through staged public appearances during the campaign that would be seized upon as instant support for belief by the already neurotically captured or committed. If she can continue saying nothing substantial about anything and avoid all serious debate, she is in.

Fourth: Not long ago I talked with a woman about the source of so-called social problems in this country. Her eyes welled up as she talked about helplessness and desperation being the root cause of the problem. But these were assertions about people she had never met and knew nothing about. She was really projecting a history of her own miserable life and her own marriage. Describing other mythical people instead of herself allowed her to release the repressed backlog of emotion she was forbidden to realize and express more directly.

People are commingling and co-channeling their personal problems into interpretations of so-called social problems that are ungoverned by any mental discipline. The sad lyrical interpretations of life and the feeling of abstract struggle, described by the radical left, stimulate waiting feelings of desperation or struggle in people's personal lives and drive the afflicted to leftist philosophy and causes like dried emotional leaves before a storm. In the psychologically deteriorated condition of the country, many people are constantly on the verge of tears anyway, and the political left releases and re-focuses their diffuse sorrow and discontent into the political process. There is a complex system of language of double meaning that has evolved in which people using political language are also describing their personal condition.

In this sense the political left offers a vicarious false or symbolic sympathy and catharsis to the depressed or emotionally wounded in this society. The fact that socialism is intrinsically oppressive and economically catastrophic is secondary to its satisfaction of that catharsis and need. It also satisfies a suicidal bent that I have been convinced for more than 35 years exists deep in the leftist movement and personality.

In many cases the political left is an indirect plea for help forced upon others. These are often, on deep levels, suicidal people who defy the pain of personal realization and change, but are attempting to force others to take charge of them by threatening to commit suicide in such a way as take us with them. This is one reason why their political and social thrusts are destructive to themselves and everyone else.

They remind me a little of women who are self-destructive hoping that a man will care enough and show that he loves her enough to set her straight. Unfortunately, what they often wind up with is exploitation by cold sadists whom they defend. The political equivalent is Josef Stalin... liberals/liberalism."

[dennisw]

That's Hillary's buqua for sure. Halfway between a nun's habit (no disrespect intended to Catholics) and a Paula Poundstone power suit.

[f.Christian]

from the above...

"They obsess and carp constantly about how wrong this county has been and the necessity for political change. You can't argue with them intelligently and get agreement on anything because the argument is not really what the argument is about. The argument is really about their desire to attribute their personal problems to the culture instead of themselves. You may think you are discussing foreign or domestic policy with a woman when what she is really talking about is a symbol, or indirect emotional expression, of the fact somebody got her pregnant and left her. Until that hidden issue, the one she refuses to talk about, is settled, all logical discourse is doomed to failure. I have found this pattern to be typical of men and women in the political left over more than 35 years."

[Leisler]

I agree, but lacking any formal training save common sense I would never be able to express myself like you have other than to say, "those people are crazy." This didn't come quickly to me. It was a matter of the last option which explained their behavior. For years I tried to inform them, show them their factual error. It never, not once worked.

[Mudboy Slim]

Ms. T., you are my hero...MUD

[Incorrigible]

So much info, so little time to comprehend let alone compile.

Brilliant!