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To: proud2bRC
Neither of us is married to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I am relieved to see that you are finally facing the reality that Mary was indeed married, a normal wife who received the seed of her lawful husband as did any married woman.

It appears there remains some hope yet that you may yet become a pr-r-r-roper Pr-r-r-rotestant, perhaps even a Pr-r-r-r-resbyterian like OPie.
1,412 posted on 02/01/2002 3:41:28 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
finally facing the reality that Mary was indeed married, a normal wife who received the seed of her lawful husband as did any married woman.

Hardly.

Thus saith JOHN CALVIN --

"There have been certain STRANGE folk who have wished to suggest from this passage [Matt 1:25] that the Virgin Mary had other children than the Son of God, and that Joseph had then dwelt with her later; BUT WHAT FOLLY THIS IS!

"For the gospel writer did not wish to record what happened afterwards; he simply wished to make clear Joseph's obedience and to show also that Joseph had been well and truly assured that it was God who had sent his angel to Mary. He had therefore NEVER dwelt with her nor had he shared her company....

"And besides this, our Lord Jesus Christ is called the first-born. This is NOT because there was a second or a third, but because the gospel writer is paying regard to the precedence. Scripture speaks thus of naming the first-born whether or no there was any question of the second. Thus we see the intention of the Holy Spirit. This is why to lend ourselves to FOOLISH SUBTLETIES WOULD BE TO ABUSE HOLY SCRIPTURE...." (Sermon on Matthew 1:22-25, published 1562)

"We have already said in another place that according to the custom of the Hebrews all relatives were called 'brethren.' Still Helvidius [a 4th century heretic] has shown himself to be IGNORANT of this by stating that Mary had many children just because in several places they are spoken of as 'brethren' of Christ." (Commentary on Matthew 13:55)

"Concerning what has happened since this birth the writer of the gospel SAYS NOTHING...certainly it is a matter about which NO ONE will cause dispute unless he is somewhat curious; on the contrary there never was a man who would contradict this in obstinacy unless he were a PIG-HEADED and FATUOUS [i.e. foolish and stupid] person." (Commentary on Matthew 1:25)

========================================================================

Thus saith MARTIN LUTHER --

"Christ our Savior was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb...This was without the cooperation of a man, AND SHE REMAINED A VIRGIN AFTER THAT." (LUTHER'S WORKS 22, 23)

[Luther preached the perpetual virginity of Mary throughout his life]

"...A virgin before the conception and birth, she REMAINED a virgin also AT the birth and AFTER it." (February 2, 1546 Feast of Presentation of Christ in the Temple)

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Thus saith ULRICH ZWINGLI --

"I firmly believe according to the words of the Gospel that a pure virgin brought forth for us the Son of God AND REMAINED A VIRGIN PURE AND INTACT IN CHILDBIRTH AND ALSO AFTER THE BIRTH, FOR ALL ETERNITY. I firmly trust that she has been exalted by God to eternal joy above all creatures, both the blessed and the angels." (from Augustin Bea "Mary and the Protestants" MARIAN STUDIES Apr 61)

"I speak of this in the holy Church of Zurich and in all my writings: I recognize MARY AS EVER VIRGIN AND HOLY." (January 1528 in Berne)


1,418 posted on 02/01/2002 5:07:55 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: George W. Bush
a pr-r-r-roper Pr-r-r-rotestant, perhaps even a Pr-r-r-r-resbyterian

Please see the quotes from Luther and Calvin regarding Mary's perpetual virginity. Seems I'm more of a "pr-r-r-roper Pr-r-r-rotestant" than you (oh, to my shame ;-)

1,421 posted on 02/01/2002 5:25:24 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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