Posted on 01/05/2002 11:55:52 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
Interesting, I had missed this before. I did not really understand just how far you go in your ridicule of Catholicism. You equate Catholicism with the Mormons , Christian Scientists and JW's? Please clarify.
Further, the Protestant Church allows divorce right and left and gives them out like candy. Christ said that marriage is for life. Protestants give out divorces far worse than indulgences were in Luther's time by far. Protestants further allow women priests and also practicing homosexual ministers! Hypocracy knows no bounds.
Are you and the_doc now getting around to implying that faithful Catholics are going to Hell? I am following this still, but not commenting. However, we ARE all Christians here on this thread, ...I have been acquainted with doc's style of posting for a year and a half now. It can take quite a while to get him to come out with it, but he has been implying just that in all these long posts to you, with code words like strange, smug, smarmy and carnal, phrases like "quite likely to get burned", "spurious conversion", and "profess to be saved", and all the references to hell, damned, baal, reprobates, hatred of God, damning errors, and demonic this and that. Quite negative overall. You seem to have picked up on a lot of this.
RnMom was the recipient of many long posts like this six months ago, and now he calls her a "true Christian", so he must have won her over to his satisfaction, as the things he called her so relentlessly six months ago were quite different. (So relentlessly that he was banned for a week. Now, after a period of milder political posting, he is starting to get back at it.)
You might ask him sometime to clarify just what it is that satisfies him that someone is a true Christian. (Not that it matters, for he is not our judge.) It doesn't matter to him if you have faith in Christ, accept Christ, repent, are baptized, take Communion, etc. (In his view, the spurious converts profess all of those things.) In other words, he is not trying to get you to observe the Biblical requirements for salvation. He adds his own.
Last summer, if you disagreed with him on the interpretation of a single verse your conversion was spurious all along and you were going to hell, as one of the FReepers now posting on this thread found out in a seemly endless series of long harangues. doc is still running that FReeper down.
So in the end, it seems, one must be willing to accept doc as spiritual mentor in every detail, or risk his ire, and many, many long rants containing threats of eternal damnation. Not the mark of a true Christian, by any stretch of the imagination.
In his view, everyone is going to hell except those whom God has or will regenerate, who are guaranteed to be saved. When it comes right down to it, doc considers himself to be the one who can "discern" whose conversion is true and whose is false and spurious. Unless you believe the right things, meaning his extreme interpretation of the Bible based on Augustine and Calvin, you are unlikely to curry doc's favor.
The evidence is all here at FR, except for the many threads that have been deleted due to abusive posts.
He has said he is done with this thread, but we will see if he wishes to respond to any of this.
the_doc, why were you banned?
Hmmm, I'd like some answers on these questions before I comment any further.
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
In my #823 to you, "seemly endless series" should be "seemingly endless series". I did a lot of proofreading, but evidently not enough.
I hate to post stuff like this, but you clearly needed to know, and this is all doc's public behavior right here at FR.
Thats what I think every time I look at the Kennedys
BTW Your observations are on the "liberal" main line churchs that long ago gave up any pretense of believing the Bible.Fundamental Bible Believing churches ,like Baptists,Orthodox Presbyterian, Independant churches do not have women in the ministry or leadership,homosexuals are not in the ministry or in many cases membership (as a Catholic and all the sexual abuse in your churches by your priests you should have gagged when you wrote that). All fundamental churches take a stand against divorce and abortion, many do not allow drinking or smoking or gambling (Bingo) either.
You are poorly informed
For maybe the hundredth time, we do not worship Mary. And yes we have Scripture that teaches us to venerate her. It's right there in Luke but you don't choose to believe it. Mary PARTICIPATED in our salvation. Everything through God is Eternal and so Mary is still participating in our salvation. She is human, she is not worshiped, she is loved and respected. She magnifies the Lord, it says so and I believe it.
The sum total of all that we love and respect about the Saints, and yes I know that I am a saint, is the Grace that they received from God to live a Holy life. anyone knows that these people didn't do one good thing without Grace, we respect them because they prove that sinful humans can be Sanctified by God..Yes, I know it says it in the Bible but they are living examples of God's work.
Now, about the love and charity you show by persisting in accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary. You've been told but you will believe what you will believe or pretend to believe but doesn't it feel bad to consistently mislead others about our Faith?
I grew up as a Methodist and I don't hate the Methodists and I don't even think that they're mislead if they are listening to the Holy Spirit in their lives. Why do you hate Catholicism, why do you continually mischaracterize it? Does it make you feel superior? If you think you are evangelizing consider that your form of evangelization doesn't work. Oh yeah, you get kudos from those who feel the same way you do but have you converted one Catholic. I do have to thank you though, because for the last year you have made me think a lot about Catholicism and embrace it even more profoundly than ever.
There's the rub.
You put all your faith not in scripture but in an interpretation of scripture made up out of whole cloth (where did I hear that phrase lately) by a few guys who came along 1500 years after Ignatius, and deny the Truths Ignatius wrote.
For the love of God! ThinK!!!
Ignatius was a friend and disciple of John the Evangelist.
John the EVANGELIST wrote the words of John 6, including the part I quoted and the part you quoted.
Yet you want me to take anything seriously that you say scripture means after saying,
Ignatius means nothing to me
Ignatius' words call to you down through 20 centuries, crying and pleading with you to open your eyes and heart to the Truth! And John calls at his side, and Jesus! You have been deceived by men's words, just as you sincerely think Catholics are deceived.
Its all a matter of interpretation!
Ignatius knew the meaning of John better than Calvin and Luther because Ignatius knew the author of John.
There is simply no better proof of the proper interpretation of John 6, both your quote and my quote, than this.
This entire thread is not about using scripture quotes to prove your point!
Its about WHICH interpretation of those quotes are correct.
Therefore no matter how many times you post proof texts, thinking they prove your position, they prove NOTHING.
NOTHING except that you have an INTERPRETATION and I have an INTERPRETATION of them. Every quote you post I can turn around and use to support my position, and vice versa.
Thus I refuse to proof text, and I ignore others when they do.
If we cannot see that it is not scripture we argue but interpretation of scripture, then we are wasting our time.
And if you blithely reject an interpretation of scripture by one taught the proper interpretation of that passage by the very author of that scripture passage, then how can anyone on this thread take any scripture interpretation or proof text you post seriously?
No "proud" I did not follow any man out of the Catholic Church. The truth of scripture led me out.
I am a grandma just now understanding Protestant doctrine.It is Jesus Christ crucified that I know,It is the grace of God that I know.
I am dying to see this scripture...please post it
You guide was faulty. Not that bible but the interpretation of that bible that led you out. Its time to come home. Its time to learn real interpretation of scripture, God's interpretation of scripture, not the reformers interpretation. (And yours is not "truth of scripture" but an "interpretation".)
Start by reading what I just told you about Ignatius and John, and comparing it with your own interpretation. If yours goes against Ignatius, it goes against St John. If it goes against St John, it goes against Jesus. Interpretation which goes against Jesus is, well, you know.
Someone's interpretation of scripture was faulty, whether it was your own or that of those who led you out. Nothing in scripture properly understood leads anyone out of the Church Christ built and granted authority to interpret its own scriptures.
The word of God,plainly read is in clear opposition to many of the RC doctrines and practices. Any church that teaches Mary as sinless, and as a co-redeemer ..does not know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord and is at risk of becoming a polytheistic religion
Indeed.
This is an interesting question. An even more interesting question might be to consider if this "the_doc" guy is the person who -- if previous posts are to be believed -- was feeding Mama 7 her quotes earlier today. You know, the quotes supposedly having to do with Scriptural support for sola Scriptura that had nothing whatsoever to do with that issue?
If so, someone should get in touch with "the_doc," and let him know that he may have cut-and-pasted from the wrong batch of talking points. I'm personally getting a little bored waiting for my Scriptural citations on this issue and wish "the_doc" would look alive and bust a move on it.
All glory, honor, and praise be to God.
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