"Death of the West" -- Echoes from the Third Reich?

[KC_Conspirator]

You are not far off base. During the election one could see Pat's themes. First, he was an America Firster and talked and talked about Mexico and immigration. That can be construed as nationalism. Secondly, he acted like a populist, bashing and speaking out against corporations and banks, saying they were complicit in the fall of America and suggested more government control. That could be understood as socialism. The last time we combined the two it was not such a good idea.

[altayann]

To close, remember human equality does not exist except in fantasy.

No, it exists in reality as well.

To quote the great American poet, James Morrison: "Death makes equals of us all".

In otherwords, all human beings are mortal. No matter how we live our lives, no matter how strong or smart or handsome we are, in the end all of our strengths and talents turn to dust.

That, more then anything else, I think, is what makes us equal.

[Thorin]

It's interesting that you take offense at Buchanan for proclaiming the superiority of the culture of the West, which he sees as being rooted in Christianity. (Buchanan's belief in the Christian basis of Western culture certainly sets him apart from the Nazis, by the way).

Feel free to test your belief in the equality of all cultures by moving to Afghanistan, India, or Burundi anytime you wish.

[Who is George Salt?]

All people are not created equal, and that is some fantasy fed to stupid and desperate and otherwise depraved citizens as much as any Soviet Union propaganda was fed to the Third World during the Cold War.

Spoken like a true "Blood and Soil" Calhoonist:

"All men are not created. According to the Bible, only two, a man and a woman, ever were, and of these one was pronounced subordinate to the other. All others have come into the world by being born, and in no sense ... either free or equal ... [This proposition] was inserted in our Declaration of Independence without any necessity. It made no part of our justification in separating from the parent country ... breach of our chartered privileges, and lawless encroachment on our acknowledged and well established rights by the parent country, were the real causes, and of themselves sufficient without resorting to any other, to justify the step. Nor had [these words] any weight in constructing the governments which were substituted in the place of the colonial. They were formed of the old materials and on practical and well-established principles, borrowed for the most part from our own experience and that of the country from which we sprang."

-- John Calhoun

Or, as that "Blood and Soil" Confederate, Alexander Stephens explained:

"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition....The prevailing ideas entertained by him (Jefferson) and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically...Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error."

-- Alexander Stephens, "Cornerstone" speech

So it really does come down to the ideals of the Declaration of Independence, doesn't it?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You must really, really, REALLY hate those words.

[Who is George Salt?]

It's interesting that you take offense at Buchanan for proclaiming the superiority of the culture of the West, which he sees as being rooted in Christianity.

"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object."

-- Thomas Jefferson, to W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819

Apparently, I'm in good company.

[AppyPappy]

I find it ironic that 130 years ago, we were trying to keep out the Irish. They were considered an immigration plague.

[junta]

Nah I don't hate them they are just polemical anyway. Lincoln carries enough baggage to negate them and his turn in the Left's "racist" dunk tank is coming soon so relax. As far as Alexander Stephens speach think of him in this light, born to a different set of parents he to could have been president of Zimbabwe. Have a good day and go out and observe your equality I am sure you will find it.

[junta]

They were, but they worked cheap. The women are gorgeous though, and that is good.

[Who is George Salt?]

According to the "Know Nothings" of the 1850s, one reason why the Irish were considered an immigration plague is because they were predominantly Catholic.

[AppyPappy]

So were the French. The Irish were considered "lower class", prone to drinking, fighting and criminal behavior. They clotted together in neighborhoods and preferred their own kind. Rather like Pat's view of Mexicans.

[Abbalon]

"Was 9-11 the echo of the first bombing of the WTC? And where will the echo of Waco be heard?" Oklahoma City.

[Who is George Salt?]

It's nice to know that Southern-fried bigots and African tyrants have something in common, after all...restores my faith in humanity!

[headsonpikes]

Bump your post #3. ;^)

[rmlew]

I consider Pat to be a right-wing populist who has flirted with anti-Semetism.
As a son and grandson of survivors I am no fan of Pat.
However, he is not a Nazi.
There is a huge difference between noting the empirical fact that population is declining in Europe (and Japan) and calling for genocide.
There is a large difference between calling for an end to immigration and calling for the mass murder of communities.

A failure to realise this indicates shallow rhetoric.

I would also note that the signers of the Declaration of Independence also instituted a cap on immigration in 1798.
Moreover, I would argue that mass immigration has done a lot to lower the relative numbers of belivers in liberty in the US.
The fact is that immigrants ( not refugees from communism) tend to be far more socialist than the average American. They then also vote in their short-term self interest. Being poor and largely unskilled, they vote for Democrats and socialist unions.
The situation among their children is worse. Having no cultural basis in our traditions of liberty, they fall victim to the socialist indoctrination of Public education, especially found in bi-lingual ed.

We need to assimilate these immigrants and teach them what it is to be an American. Having an additional million immigrants enter annually only serves to increase teh problem and further insulate immigrants from mainstreme America.
Frankly, Pat is a poor choice for a spokesman on the issue. Pat is a demagogue and racist.

If you want a more reasoned attack on mass imiigration, read Alien Nation by Peter Brimlow.
Before I read the book I supported mass immigration so long as we ended affirmative action, bi-lingual ed, and multi-cultural programs. Now I support a virtual moratorium.

[Who is George Salt?]

I consider Pat to be a right-wing populist who has flirted with anti-Semetism.

-- I agree.

However, he is not a Nazi.

-- Again, I agree. I never said PJB was a Nazi; I said there were some uncanny parallels between his rhetoric and Nazi propaganda,

There is a huge difference between noting the empirical fact that population is declining in Europe (and Japan) and calling for genocide.

-- In this speech, Gross does far more than simply note the empirical fact that the the population is declining in Europe. And he never specifically mentions the Jews - or genocide - though he makes a pretty strong pitch for eugenics, which implies forced euthanasia, and as we now know, much more.

My point is that PJB's rhetoric is hardly new; it can be traced back to Oswald Spengler, and Spengler's arguments were adopted by the Nazis. In other words, this rhetoric carries alot of baggage. This baggage, in itself, does not invalidate the thesis; however, when you consider PJB's previous flirtations with anti-Semitism, a red flag should go up.

Pat is a poor choice for a spokesman on the issue. Pat is a demagogue and racist.

-- Again, we agree. Reasonable people can honestly disagree over this issue. PJB is not an honest person - he is a dangerous demagogue.

[Tailback]

Let me ask you this, when my Irish, Welsh, and English ancestors came to America were they eligible for welfare? Were they given job finding assistance at the employment dept. in their native language? Were they given free emergency medical care? Were they given more preference points for government jobs than some military veterans? Were they eligible for Social Security and Medicare even though they hadn't paid in their fair share? Were the Irish that came to Ellis island with tuberculosis allowed into the country? Did the Welsh immigrants smuggle cocaine when they crossed the border? Did these people NOT assimilate into the AMERICAN culture after 3 or 4 generations? Did my great grandmother recieve WIC benefits once my grandfather was born (during the depression)? Who the he!! do you think pays out the nose for all of the above benefits? Is it the Mexican illegals or is it the average American taxpayer? Well, considering the fact that most of the amigos that work in the fields here in the Willamette valley are working under the table I would say that Joe sixpack is footing the bill. You sir are comparing apples to oranges. History repeats itself and the USA is currently following the Roman Empire's recipe for self destruction with the help of your Spanish speaking friends.

[UberVernunft]

"But the greatest of all reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill, we have the outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man. The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent morality, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems, invented by ultra-Christian sects (The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of the Hierarchy, etc.) is a most desirable object."

-- Thomas Jefferson, to W. Short, Oct. 31, 1819

Apparently, I'm in good company.

Get a clue. In the first part of the quote Jefferson is talking about Judaism, and in the last part he is bashing Catholicism. So what exactly is your point? That you're both an anti-semite and anti-Catholic?