It's evening in America, Buchanan says, and immigrants are to blame (Buchanan interview)

Fort Worth Star-Telegram | 1/03/2002 | Jeff Guinn (Books Editor)

[MadIvan]

When a people is trustworthy, government will be also

You are approaching this from a very socialistic angle - Rousseau would love you for thinking that man is essentially good. Conservatives know better. That is why society, customs and norms are there to constrain man from acting bestial.

I don't know what you believe but it is not conservatism. It is touchy feely gobbledy gook which has nothing to do with reality. Thinking that any institution based on imperfect men can be "good" is beyond bizarre.

Ivan

[Joe Hadenuf]

I am just now reading his book. I am only part way through it, but I can tell you that I now realize why so many with agendas that lack American interest, hate Buchanan and his book.

[MadIvan]

I dont see a parallel between Nazi rewards for aryan mothers and a uniform tax break for American mothers.

It's a government administrated and dished out benefit either way. Is that so difficult or has hanging out with the Patsies damaged you permanently?

You are being disingenuous by ignoring what Pat is supposed to mean by "culturally American". You Patsies want to ignore that this does not necessarily mean everyone with an American passport.

Ivan

[Joe Hadenuf]

Quote from Pat Buchanans Death of the West.

Uncontrolled immigration threatens to deconstruct the nation we grew up in and convert America into a conglomeration of peoples with almost nothing in common-not history, heroes, language, culture, faith, or ancestors. Balkanization beckons.

Bang, right in the ten ring.

[garbanzo]

Not really - you're confusing nationalism and tribalism which was the dominant form of social organization - let's be specific about definitions here - nationalism is the loyalty to the state as an abstract idea. Tribalism is loyalty to a biological group. The two are often intertwined and in their extreme forms are militaristic and xenophobic, e.g. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany.

Also while republicanism supported the rise of nationalism that doesn't equate republicanism and nationalism - the two are vastly different concepts which can exist independently of each other.

But let's be practical here - Canada is not a socialist state. Most industries and businesses are in private hands and Canada has a substantial tradition of respect for human rights - I've never said Canada represents my political ideals but if given a choice between living in Canada and say Cuba, any reasonable person knows what choice to make there.

[PuNcH]

It's a government administrated and dished out benefit either way. Is that so difficult or has hanging out with the Patsies damaged you permanently?

Sorry but there is a difference between the Nazi's discrimination against non-aryans and a uniform tax break for all mothers. One discriminates and the other does not.

You are being disingenuous by ignoring what Pat is supposed to mean by "culturally American". You Patsies want to ignore that this does not necessarily mean everyone with an American passport.

You are reading into what Pat is supposed to mean. Can you back up what you think he is supposed to mean aside from taking words out of context?

[Joe Hadenuf]

I thought I would offer another quote from Mr. Buchanans book.

In 1960 only sixteen million Americans did not trace their ancestors to Europe. Today, the number is *eighty million*. No nation has ever undergone so rapid and radical a transformation. At Portland State in 1998, Mr. Clinton rhapsodized to a cheering student audience about a day when Americans of European descent will be a minority

Clinton: "Today, largely because of immigration, there is no majority race in Hawaii or Houston or New York City. Within five years there will be no majority race in our largest state, California. In a little more than fifty years there will be no majority race in the United States. No other nation in history has gone through demographic change of this magnitude in so short a time."

Buchanan continues. Correction: no nation in history has gone through a demographic change of thsi magnitude in so short a time, and remained the same nation. Mr. Clinton assured us that it will be a better America when we are all minorities and realize true diversity.

[Jethro Tull]

#363: Hi Joe:

It's amazing how many people who haven't read his book have formed rock solid opinions about it's content.

First, it's the best book he's written to date. I've not seen one argument against his research.

Second, to give it a thunbnail sketch, it's about how Marxism stopped attacking capitolism and began attacking Western culture. No one on this forum who considers themselves intellectual honest, should have a problem with Buchanan's conclusion.

Like true fascist neo-cons, they're attacking the messenger, not the message.

[Jethro Tull]

#367:"But let's be practical here - Canada is not a socialist state."

No, just important segments of it's economy are.

Take your health care system.

Pure Marx....

[Joe Hadenuf]

Like true fascist neo-cons, they're attacking the messenger, not the message.

This says it all about those that refuse to see or that harbor agendas that lack Americas interest.

[Jethro Tull]

"Why should I reward his sludge with my hard earned cash?"

Well, for one thing it always helps to have read a book you're discussing.

And besides, did I say for you to buy it?

I believe I said read it.

Have they not public libraries in Mother England?

[MadIvan]

British generals...like Monty. Nice attempt at an insult. What other bad parlour tricks do you do, "Slap the Handcuffs on the Mexican"?

You said that government would be good if a people would be good. I'm trying to tell you that people are rarely good, and therefore government is unlikely to be good. Now Pat comes strolling across the park, saying that the government is going to decide who is culturally American or not, and dish out tax credits on that basis. You don't seem to have a problem with government getting these many powers, I do. Because my practical, realistic objections is that there is no good way for a government to do this. This is far from libertarian abstractions, it is a practical objection to the abstract way that you and Pat define things and intend to do things. It's not my fault you are so daft that you have it backwards.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

Have they not public libraries in Mother England?

I live next to one. But they have better things to spend their cash on than books by a failed politician who only garnered .8% of the vote. I am rare among Brits for having heard of him in the first place.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

Like true fascist neo-cons, they're attacking the messenger, not the message.

Oh do get real. I have raised consistent, practical objections into what Buchanan wants to do, and you just want to brush it off because your head is so far up Buchanan's backside you won't ever concede the possibility he might be wrong.

Ivan

[PuNcH]

If all the countries of the world shared the same democratic values what would be the problem with a global federation of sorts with constitutionally limited powers?

This is too vague and meaningless to be of any value to Americans and their inalienable rights. If you are suggesting that the UN or some new world order is going in the direction of acknowledging inalienable rights I'd really like to see the proof.

The soviet union had a constitution, what they called republicanism, a list of "rights", democracy. -- No God. Nothing inalienable.

[The Irishman]

I read your post #290 and it took me a bit of time to pass judgment on your questions. The questions that they raised in my mind were: Question #1 Are they inane? or Question #2 Are they irrelavant? In favor of inane is the fact that nearly everyone with IQ above 60 has a fairly good grasp on what an American is. The one group that this may not be true of are the neo-imperialists of the left and right who can't seem to muster more concern for their fellow countymen than they have for nationals of other countries. Of course, when it's time to fight wars for their interests they become superpatriots and have no difficulty in demanding that their fellow citizens defend them.

In favor of irrelavant, is your absurd attempt to denigrate the idea of increasing the parental tax exemption by calling it "social engineering". By your criterion, what action of government is not social engineering? Are you an anarchist?

So after long consideration I could not decide which Question I posed to myself better described your post. It was both inane and irrelavant.

[ZULU]

I'll have the Bud on the left, thanks.