I realize that - however doctrinal issues exist just like Calvinism, & Arminianism. To deny that is to open your eyes within your bowels.
How does celebrating Mass in Latin de-rich the poor? For that matter how does a Baptist service in English enrich the poor?
Christ took Salvation from the Synagogue and gave it to the poor. A Latin Mass will be only understood by those intelligent enough to comprehend latin, something you wont find among the demographics of todays inner city. Is it trying to reach people and spread the Word or is it merely spooning Christ out in a controlled manner to those so educated? As for Baptist /English services, it takes the predominant language of the region and makes it accessible to anyone who comes in the door, not just the pew filler Sunday Christian / Holiday types.
So, it is the chance of heretical teaching that bothers you? You do realize that priests do not ad lib during the Mass?
Oh please child - Ive got the whole liturgical thing down - & yes Ive heard plenty of ad-libs (Cath and Pro)
Do you also realize that the Mass is an offering to God, a time to worship? Those attending Mass are there to worship God, not necessarily to sit and listen to a preacher.
Im glad the worship works for you. Personally though, the liturgical constancy is boring, predictable and Spirit lacking. You are entitled though.
You act as if those attending Latin Mass have no idea of what is being said and sung. This is insulting. First of all, educated Catholics understand what the parts of the Mass are all about. Secondly, the Missal contains a side-by-side translation into English, so even the newecomer can follow along.
I disagree, approach a large cross section of Catholic youth and I will all but guarantee they are ignorant of Latin until they reach the age of 15 or so.
What is it that makes you believe that my singing "O come let us adore Him" is good but singing "Venite Adoremus" is bad? Ive got no problem with singing in Latin.
Then let it sink in. Your biggest objection to a Latin Mass is that heretical teaching may seep in, in a language you don't understand. Well, you just admitted that you understand that teaching is done in the vernacular. This includes the Scripture readings and the sermon during Mass, as well as outside instruction given to children and converts.
No thats not my biggest objection - My biggest objection (like it matters a hoot in hell) is that it is not ministering to the poor effectively. Bob Bluecollar showing up for the first time is not going to get a thing out of it, and if he gets nothing from it, how can he expected to go forth and spread the gospel effectively. Though now that ive said that I realize just how few Catholics spread the gospel at all - so I guess he'd fit in.
Define "infallible."
Infallible = Jesus/God/Holy Spirit
Contrast that with "impeccible."
Impeccible = Pope John Paul, Billy Graham
We do not teach that Popes are without sin. This is a common misconception and I would think you would know better.
Ya huh - certainly wasnt that way in our Diocese 30 years ago.
I asked you to define "co-redeemer." You have failed. Shall I rail about some teaching of yours without even having the faintest idea of how to define it? Wouldn't that make me ignorant?
co-redeemer = someone elevated to the level of Christ - spare me your slavish need for these simple definitions.
It all comes down to this again - the fact you ignore the doctrinal lapses in Catholicism while holding it up as pure and unadulterated. Its inhabited by men - fallible men
I realize that - however doctrinal issues exist just like Calvinism, & Arminianism. To deny that is to open your eyes within your bowels.
Very clever. Do you have an example? Since they "exist" I thought you might?
How does celebrating Mass in Latin de-rich the poor? For that matter how does a Baptist service in English enrich the poor?
Christ took Salvation from the Synagogue and gave it to the poor. A Latin Mass will be only understood by those intelligent enough to comprehend latin, something you wont find among the demographics of todays inner city. Is it trying to reach people and spread the Word or is it merely spooning Christ out in a controlled manner to those so educated?
As I said, the primary, if not sole purpose of a Mass is to worship God. I also said that the Bible readings and sermon would be in the vernacular. So what part of "reaching people" and "spreading the Word" would be missing?
As for not understanding the ordinary parts of the Mass in Latin, there are, as I already said, Missals with English translations. So that isn't an excuse either. You haven't addressed what I said at all, just listed your prejudice again.
As for Baptist /English services, it takes the predominant language of the region and makes it accessible to anyone who comes in the door, not just the pew filler Sunday Christian / Holiday types.
As would a Catholic Mass in Latin with Missals and the readings and sermon in the vernacular. Shall we tailor everything we do to the ignorant folks who may stumble across the doorway? Or should we honor God the best way we know how and provide teaching to elevate even an inner city youth to know how to say "Et cum spiritu tuo" and know what it means? Must everything be remedial?
So, it is the chance of heretical teaching that bothers you? You do realize that priests do not ad lib during the Mass?
Oh please child - Ive got the whole liturgical thing down - & yes Ive heard plenty of ad-libs (Cath and Pro)
LOL. You got me there. I should have said priests are not supposed to ad lib during Mass. You will find little of this in the Latin Mass, as few can ad lib in Latin.
Do you also realize that the Mass is an offering to God, a time to worship? Those attending Mass are there to worship God, not necessarily to sit and listen to a preacher.
Im glad the worship works for you. Personally though, the liturgical constancy is boring, predictable and Spirit lacking. You are entitled though.
Liturgical constancy and even the use of a special language serves to make the liturgy different from the other activities we partake in. It is a special time and place to spend with God in worship to Him. That it is different from a normal assembly of human beings is good. That it follows a pattern is a symbol of the constancy of God.
What is it that makes you believe that my singing "O come let us adore Him" is good but singing "Venite Adoremus" is bad?
Ive got no problem with singing in Latin.
The entire Mass is designed to be sung! So what do you make of that?
Define "infallible."
Infallible = Jesus/God/Holy Spirit
Contrast that with "impeccible."
Impeccible = Pope John Paul, Billy Graham
Neither of those are definitions, rather they are examples. And neither the Pope nor Billy Graham are impeccible. Try dictionary.com.
We do not teach that Popes are without sin. This is a common misconception and I would think you would know better.
Ya huh - certainly wasnt that way in our Diocese 30 years ago.
I can assure you that no Diocese taught that the Pope was without sin.
I asked you to define "co-redeemer." You have failed. Shall I rail about some teaching of yours without even having the faintest idea of how to define it? Wouldn't that make me ignorant?
co-redeemer = someone elevated to the level of Christ - spare me your slavish need for these simple definitions.
My "slavish need" to have you define your terms reveals that you don't know what you are talking about. The furthest stretch of the Catholic imagination of Mary as "Co-Redeemer" does not elevate her to the level of Christ. It is called "ignorance" when you talk about things you don't understand and it is called a "strawman" to attack ideas of your opponent which he does not hold.
Do I do that to your faith?
SD