Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation??

Ask Father Murray Watson ^ | Father Murray

[peabers]

You should not be so smug. What if you had been born a Hindu? What if all your ancestors for centuries were Hindu and you loved them and respected them. What if the ties that bound you to them and to your land and culture were intertwined with Hinduism? Are you so smug as to think that just hearing the gospel once or twice could overcome all that conditioning?

And early Christians converted because.... Sorry, but that was a senseless set of statements you just made.

[peabers]

until Baptists begin speaking mass in latin, accept the pope as a vicar of Christ, and worship the mortal mother of Christ as a co-redeemer, I'm afraid so (sarcasm)

Your ignorance is truly astounding.

[Theresa]

"And early Christians converted because.... Sorry, but that was a senseless set of statements you just made."

What I said was entirely sensible. And I do think there is a certain lack of humility in those who think that they know that EVERY person who hears the gospel once or twice or even more often does not convert because they are stubborn or sinful or rejecting God altogether. Since when did they learn to read minds? The human mind, the human condition, the variation of cultures and up-bringing and experiences that strongly influence each individual should be taken into consideration. If I had been born Muslim I would probably stay Muslim. I just don't know if I would have converted or not. If I was raised all my life to believe that being a Muslim was the most pleasing thing to God, and I want to please God, then why would I switch to another faith?

Your faith is a gift, no boasting about it is allowed and one way to boast is to look down your nose at non-Christians and think you know that they are going to hell and you are not. There is every reason to be grateful and no reason to look down your nose at non-Christians or to denigrate those who live good lives or to denigrate their good works. I am humbled by the good works of some non-Christians.

Jesus told the Pharasees. 'If you were blind you would have no sin. But "We see, you say" and so your sin remains.' What this means to me is that some are really blinded from impediments that keep them from giving the gospel a fair hearing. In such cases they may not, MAY not be culpable for not converting. But if, like the Pharasees, you really do see it but continue in your ways, then your sin remains.

[Revelation 911]

Your ignorance is truly astounding.

How wonderfully Christian of you to point out. Go to your room young man, but stop long enough here to chew my shorts.

It was sarcasm -

[Revelation 911]

I also note that your participation in this thread is clearly antagonistic - have we hit a nerve? apologies if so.

continue chewing my shorts

[peabers]

I also note that your participation in this thread is clearly antagonistic - have we hit a nerve? apologies if so.

continue chewing my shorts

Not only is your knowledge of Catholicism shallow, you are too. Proddy trash.

[Revelation 911]

Not only is your knowledge of Catholicism shallow, you are too. Proddy trash.

My knowledge of how Catholicism is practiced in my diocese is just fine thank you.

As for me being Proddy Trash - sorry you feel that way (though it is a charming Catholic/Christian thought)- though not surprising since you brought nothing to the dialogue.

I was a Catholic for 20+ years and my children still attend school there. However I tired of worshipping Mary and the Church more than Jesus, so I departed sometime ago - only because it is filled with Sunday Christians like yourself who seek comfort in the services, yet fail to carry the lessons through into your daily walk with Christ. What a pitiful situation that the Mother Church has slid into.

[Cultural Jihad]

Thanks for posting this.

[packrat01]

"I'll be justified by faith in Jesus, but not faith in the RCC, thank you."

Right. So will I and am I am Catholic. You still don't understand.

Some Christians are catholic, not all catholics are Christian. It's a condition of the heart.

[packrat01]

We need to recognize that a child under 18 is also not capable of choosing a religion that is forced upon him by an adult.

The parents will be held responsible for teaching error to their children. They will be held to account for leading their children astray.

[packrat01]

Of course I must ask this question: Isn't "being saved" and "saying the sinners prayer" an 'extra special doctrine of man, that just originated over the last two centuries? I hope I am asking this to the right person. Because noone believed this until the 1800's I believe. Jesus never says in the Gospel to "say the sinners prayer" and you'll be saved.

Most protestant evangelical churches nowadays are Arminian. The RCC is works-based salvation.

Of course the never ending misunderstandings which people cling to about Catholics 'worshiping Mary', 'worshiping statues' etc. is old and tired. I don't understand why people keep bringing these up even when they are told that we don't do such things. Oh well.

Take yer "hail Mary";
...
Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our deat amen.

I don't know if I'll EVER get that out of my head.

Praying TO Mary for intercession to Jesus. Unbiblical as the day is long.

Regarding salvation outside the Church, I believe we are all responsible to find the truth of what Christ wants us to do. In my opinion, and I left the Church at one time because of some of the things you mentioned, the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. The splendor of truth. "The whole enchilada." And I shall never leave "home" again.

They're full of something, but Truth ain't it.

[packrat01]

still devout catholics, and I am just trying to find a way to reach them. But they won't discuss it.

Got the same problem with my mom. (See no truth, Hear no truth, Speak no truth)

She's not sure why she believes what she believes, but she'll defend it to the death; unfortuantely.

If you find a chink in their armor, send me a FReepmail.

thanks

[packrat01]

I have nothing against Catholics. I know many Catholic's who I feel are certain to go to heaven.

But, I can assure you, based on my research of the Bible...It will be inspite of the Catholic Church, not because of it.

I've come to think the same. Although, one wonders why they remain with the RCC once their eyes have been opened.

[Cap'n Crunch]

I think that everyone who loves Christ and strives to find Him will find Him, and Christ will lead them to salvation.

If we love God with our whole mind, our whole heart and all our strength and our neighbor as ourselves then I believe we are on the right track. The vehicle we use to get there may differ.

Best wishes.

[Cap'n Crunch]

I've pointed to the scripture references regarding works, and some church teaching on the matter. I believe that if you love someone you will want to do something to please them. These are sometimes called works. I believe that (and I may have posted it) that Christianity is an "action" based religion. I love Jesus and I want others to love Him also so I do things that I believe will be pleasing to my heavenly Father. I do not believe that once we are 'saved' that we have to do nothing and can shut up the spirit in us. Nature does not bare that out, and I believe common sense says the same. Though I count everything that is given to me as grace.

You say you won't be able to get the "Hail Mary" out of your head. I regret that I wasn't saying it earlier in my life. After I started my devotion to Mary my spiritual life took off. There have been books written about Our Lady also, they explain many things. I think that Jesus giving us His Mother("Behold your Mother-Behold your son") is one of the most beautiful gifts Jesus gave to us. She certainly is my Mother, and I believe if you knew her correctly you would have a devotion to her also.

Peace be with you.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Peace be with you also!

[Cap'n Crunch]

One thing I will agree on, just because one is Catholic doesnt mean anything. Too many people have an external devotion, they go to Church because its habit, they haven't grown in grace, or internalized their religion. "You have become lukewarm so I will spit you out of my mouth"

I believe that it is a constant daily struggle/and joy to strive for perfection. "Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect"

We have to advance in virtue, daily.

[packrat01]

I can't see God as debtor to man under any circumstance.

One of the first phrases I read in a Bible after I'd left the RCC, was:

Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Y'all have "Father so-and-so", yet he has no children; and his "title" is clearly anti-scriptural.

IIRC, they also claim to intercede on our behalf, to Mary and the other "saints".

Mat 23:3-10

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.