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Yes, the Middle Eastern civiliation created zero and algebra, but that was along time ago. "What have you done for my lately?" You take their best and compare it to the west's worst. Reality is any invention since 1600 AD has been western, and im not typing this from an arabic PC, or watching a Mexican TV.

You may be in the future. I have an abacus. It is a hedged bet in case the powers that be outlaw anything to do with electronic devices that may offend Allah. I'm also taking Spanish and Arabic lessons too in the event that those become the new dominant languages of Amerika.

Which was beside the point...your fellow boy in the (white) hood insisted that Western civ wasn't open to new ideas from outside the West during the Renaissance. He was wrong. I made no futher claims about Arab civilization other than when they were open to new ideas their civilization flourished (i.e. they preserved many of the ancient Greek texts) when they closed themselves off they crumbled - which was the main point of all this - that when we start thinking that no one else on earth has ideas to consider we will crumble just as surely.

If I were in the DNC, I'd print out this thread and use it in campaign mailers. I know that people like you are a tiny but loud minority in the GOP and are politically inert (What were Pat's vote totals again?) but it does bother me to see such ugly displays of hate masquerading as conservatism.