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To: Matchett-PI
Have you never read the Scripture that shows that it is the bad "tree" that is the problem ... the fruit is only the "natural result" (or effect) of the problem.

Well speak for yourself, I'm not a fruit.

Organic fruit is the involuntary product of a plants reproductive funtion. The mataphor our Lord uses, (you seem to have forgotten the reference) are as follows:

Matthew 7:17-19 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Of course these teach exactly the opposite of what you think they teach. Jesus is not talking about the cause of the fruit, but how to determine a good tree from a corrupt tree. No matter what one believes, or how stronly they believe it, how many times they've been baptized, confessed their sins, or prayed, if they continue to sin, they are corrupt. It does not matter if they are a preacher, priest, theologian, or Bible teacher, if they sin, they are corrupt.

If you think Jesus was teaching that sinners sin because their nature makes them sin, you have no idea what sin is. Do you think sin is something that happens to you, and that God judges people for what happens to them? Find a good concordance and find out how many times the Bible says people will be judged according to their works. Do you just throw those verses out out?

Then compare these words of Jesus:

John 5:28&29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Hank

76 posted on 01/01/2002 4:46:32 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
The wicked go astray from birth, speaking lies.
79 posted on 01/01/2002 5:19:02 PM PST by the_doc
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To: Hank Kerchief; the_doc
"...they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

I don't know if you realize it, but your whole post just proved my point about the "tree" being responsible for the fruit. I equated you (and all human beings) to "trees" ... not "fruits" and you just turned it totally around. How does that happen?

Here is your above quote with "trees" substituted for "they":

".... trees that have done good (bore good fruit), unto the resurrection of life; and trees that have done evil (bore bad fruit), unto the resurrection of damnation...".

And as you plainly showed from the Scriptures a corrupt tree cannot bear "good fruit". A corrupt unregenerate sinner (tree) cannot choose to "do good" (bear good fruit). It is IMPOSSIBLE.

The corrupt is corrupt. It cannot be anything different from what it is.

That is, unless the Sovereign God bestows His saving grace on it and redeems it from corruption and makes it Holy. Only then can it bear good fruit.

To say it another way, unless God imputes the goodness (holiness) of Jesus to the corrupt sinner (tree) it is impossible for that sinner (tree) to bear good fruit.

80 posted on 01/01/2002 5:19:14 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Hank Kerchief
Well speak for yourself, I'm not a fruit.

The lost Jews were condemned by Jeremiah as "bad figs."

81 posted on 01/01/2002 5:23:54 PM PST by the_doc
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To: Hank Kerchief
Well speak for yourself, I'm not a fruit.

No but What you do is fruit..

John 15 John 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

88 posted on 01/01/2002 6:00:38 PM PST by RnMomof7
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