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To: the_doc
I would say that you haven't figured out how bad sin is yet.

I don't get my position from Augustine.

I don't believe anyone needs to "figure out" how bad sin is. It is pretty clearly taught, what it is, and what its consequences are.

One thing for sure, you can't know how bad a thing is, until you know what it is, and if your beliefs are from a church that is Calvinistic, or from the Bible misinterpreted by them, you believe it is something that happens to you, not something you do. You believe sin is a condition you inherited and excuse your sin on the basis of, you can't help it, because you were born that way.

When you learn that sin is what you do, by your own choice, and not something foisted on you by your parents, or great-great-great...grandparents (such as Adam and Eve), you will begin to understand how terrible sin is.

Hank

70 posted on 01/01/2002 3:17:08 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief; the_doc
"... sin is what you do..."

It is what you ARE that results in what you *will* do.

Have you never read the Scripture that shows that it is the bad "tree" that is the problem ... the fruit is only the "natural result" (or effect) of the problem.

74 posted on 01/01/2002 4:09:57 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Hank Kerchief; the_doc
"...from a church that is Calvinistic, or from the Bible misinterpreted by them, you believe [sin] is something that happens to you..."

That would be funny, if it wasn't a serious matter. Do you know that you're misrepresenting the Scriptural teachings of Calvin by claiming he taught that sin is just something that "happens to you"?

I'm sure you didn't mean to do that, did you?

77 posted on 01/01/2002 4:56:10 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Hank Kerchief
You believe sin is a condition you inherited and excuse your sin on the basis of, you can't help it, because you were born that way.

This is not my position. It's not even close. I do not maintain that sin is merely "an inherited condition." My position is that so long as you remain unregenerate, you are a veritable demon deserving damnation.

That is much more severe than your position. Think about it some more.

78 posted on 01/01/2002 5:16:26 PM PST by the_doc
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