Now, if this verse is true, and it is, then the natural man, who does not have the Spirit of God within him, does not even have the ability to do good...
...Are you now going to condemn me for quoting what Somebody Else wrote?
First, I never condemn anyone and certainly not for quoting Scripture. I also do not accuse people of being insincere. I believe you are sincere. People can be sincerely mistaken.
Neither nature or "the natural man" is mentioned in chapter 7 of Romans. That is something you added. It is interesting that nature is so misunderstood, especially since Paul makes it so very clear. For example,
Rom. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
Here Pual indicates that sin is against nature, not the result of it.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Here Paul shows that mans nature can lead him to obey God's law. How is this possible if it is "totally depraved."
1 Cor. 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Now Paul has nature teaching what is shameful, and what is not. Interesting the Paul would pick something totally depraved and helplessly evil to illustrate decency.
As for Pual's words about his inability to do that which he would do, there is no reason to suppose a sinful nature from that. Sin is addicting and enslaving, and those who have chosen it, become it's helpless slaves.
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
2 Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
Is mankind deprave? Yes, by choice. We are all, before we are saved, servants of sin, by choice, and guilty of that choice. When Paul says, "his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness," it would be meaningless if man was required by his "sinful nature" to sin. There would be no question of "obeying" sin, because he would have no choice in the matter at all. But, in fact he does have a choice, and always chooses wrong, and is thus brought into bondage to sin. And it is this bondage that Paul was decrying.
Hank
The only difference between Paul in Romans 7 and a natural man is the Spirit of God. And all a natural man has is the inability to do good.
I'm going to have to go back into our posts as I haven't a clue what was discussed. I've been busy on another thread....
No, Hank you are wrong on that. We are born depraved in the image of Adam (Gen.5:3, Rom.5:12). This depravity is from birth since it is in the flesh we receive from Adam's seed (Rom7:5).The reason for this is so Christ (as the Second Adam) can make everyone savable. Thus, everyone has to be under the same condemnation (Rom.5:15). That depravity, however,is not total in the sense that the Calvinist maintain, that man is unable to respond to Illumnation from the Holy Spirit. The Calvinists deny scripture by making Regeneration precede faith, in order to hold to their philosophical speculative TULIP.
Even so, come Lord Jesus