[AndrewSshi]

I noticed that we've got several free will threads going on here, so I figured I'd throw my own hat into the ring by recycling my History term paper from last semester.

[f.Christian]

News From Dr.Ford

"With Martin Luther we can joyously proclaim: 'Mine is Christs living and dying as if I had lived his life and died his death.' Thus, sanctification is always the fruit of Christian experience, and never the root. When John Wesley heard the gospel, he gave up his legalism but continued his self-denying life, not now as the root, but as the fruit of his faith".

Dr.Desmond Ford..."Right With God--- Right Now"! Page 272

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

The Catholic Epistle Of St. James The Apostle 2:24 "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only."

The Catholic Epistle Of St. James The Apostle 2:26 "For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead."

"Sola Fide" is bunk.

[RnMomof7]

FYI

[the_doc]

This thread is not my cup of tea. I suspect it is yours, however.

Regards,

[Dr. Eckleburg]

FYI

[good1]

if one is to be saved by faith alone, then man, shorn of his free will, is reduced to the role of a puppet dancing on God’s strings.

It is just here that many make an illogical and improper leap.

Often, as this writer has just done, thinkers will follow closely, and correctly, the Biblical text and teaching, but suddenly, for some unknown reason, jump to a thoroughly un-Biblical conclusion. They then proceed from there to go completely astray in their theological thinking.

Man's will is not free. It is either unregerate and bound by sin, or it is regenerate and the bondage of the sin-bound will is broken. Hence the Bible writer's proclaimation that he is the "slave" of Christ (Romans 1:1; Philippians 1:1).

If the writer would adhere closely to the Biblical text and avoid the pitfalls of such erroneous thinking, he would not confuse himself with a host of other difficulties.

[Mahone]

How can a being described as being "dead in trespasses and sin" Ephesians 2:1 - with hearts described as "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" Jeremiah 17:9 - be able, much less "free" to choose anything but evil?

The worship of the great god, free will, is one of the errors most deadly to man's soul.

[Mahone]

In the end, after all the debate, I hope you and others realize that this is so much more than an intellectual exercise and that it is something you will only "know" if the Lord gives you the eyes to see it, and a heart that will itself be its testimony.

This is not some doctrine, it is life to a dead man, you can't just sit and "discuss" something that you have not experienced.

[185JHP]

How you can combine sola fide, which the Book teaches, and predestination with free will, has never been explained. But you can't tear free will out of the Book if you're honest - it's there - "Whosoever will to the Lord may come." I thought of a scenario not long after I became a Christian that I like - you take your son to a major city that has both a major sports team and a major theme park, and you say "Son, it's up to you - a game, or a trip to Six Flags?" Does your knowing what he'll choose mean you forced his choice? I think not...

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

FRiend Andrew: Having read your essay in full, I shall address to you one Scripture passage, and one question.
For the purpose of discussion, I will stipulate in advance that Man's Will is absolutely Free. Let's proceed.

---

Scripture
Matthew 11: 20 - 27 --
Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Question

• God foreknew Tyre and Sidon's free choice NOT TO REPENT in the case of His non-performance of Miracles equivalent to those performed in Chorazin and Bethsaida; AND
• God foreknew Tyre and Sidon's free choice TO REPENT in the case of His performance of such Miracles; AND
• God CHOSE not to perform these Miracles in Tyre and Sidon, a choice which had as its perfectly foreknown result the NON-Repentance of Tyre and Sidon, just as He foreknew.

  True, or False?

---

I'll await your response.

[nickcarraway]

When Martin Luther defied a Pope and proclaimed salvation only through the ineffable grace of God, he had no idea that he was rending the body of the ancient church that had for so long known only unity.

How could anyone argue that this is true. There was always plenty of dissent.

[Quix]

God/Christ's Spirit has allowed all kinds of things for many different KINDS of reasons throughout history. The Old Testament is full of such. The children of Israel were allowed to err, be rebelliouis, listen to arrogant people etc.

God uses all things for His purposes. It's not a surprising thing that God would use Luther when the Roman faction became too arrogant, too pharisee ridden to well demonstrate or bear His truth remotely convincingly.

[Delta-Boudreaux]

reference bump

[L,TOWM]

Bookmark bump.