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To: rob777
It still comes down to the difference represented by two men, Edmund Burke vs. John Locke; between two revolutions the French and the American. Burke summed it up with this statement "Liberty without wisdom, and without virtue is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint." (Reflections on the Revolution in France, 1790.)

Libertarians are NOT conservative and to Christians who call themselves libertarians, I say you might want to rethink your views.

131 posted on 12/22/2001 1:27:39 PM PST by Mahone
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To: Mahone
Libertarians are NOT conservative and to Christians who call themselves libertarians....

So one can't be a conservative Christian and a Libertarian at the same time? If not, why not?

132 posted on 12/22/2001 1:30:21 PM PST by Christian_Egalitarian
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To: Mahone
Libertarians are NOT conservative and to Christians who call themselves libertarians, I say you might want to rethink your views.

Might you be the one to review what you concider a Christian to be and also what you concider a libertarian to be? Perhaps you have an incorrect view of what one or both are?

148 posted on 12/22/2001 2:26:54 PM PST by IASKTHEREFOREIAM
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To: Mahone
It still comes down to the difference represented by two men, Edmund Burke vs. John Locke; between two revolutions the French and the American.

In a way you're right. The American Revolution was largely a libertarian event. The French Revolution was not. The differences are obvious.

What you seem to have in mind, though, is to say the American Revolution took after Burke, who, you claim, was anti-libertarian, while the French Revolution took after Locke. Of course, out in the real world the American Revolution took after Locke and the French Revolution took after Rousseau. Burke was a minority MP whose best work was ahead of him at the time of the American Revolution.

Men naturally rebel against the injustice of which they are victims. Thus, when plunder is organized by law for the profit of those who make the law, all the plundered classes try somehow to enter -- by peaceful or revolutionary means -- into the making of laws. According to their degree of enlightenment, these plundered classes may propose one of two entirely different purposes when they attempt to attain political power: Either they may wish to stop lawful plunder, or they may wish to share in it.

Woe to the nation when this latter purpose prevails among the mass victims of lawful plunder when they, in turn, seize the power to make laws! Until that happens, the few practice lawful plunder upon the many, a common practice where the right to participate in the making of law is limited to a few persons. But then, participation in the making of law becomes universal. And then, men seek to balance their conflicting interests by universal plunder. Instead of rooting out the injustices found in society, they make these injustices general. As soon as the plundered classes gain political power, they establish a system of reprisals against other classes. They do not abolish legal plunder. (This objective would demand more enlightenment than they possess. ) Instead, they emulate their evil predecessors by participating in this legal plunder, even though it is against their own interests.

It is as if it were necessary, before a reign of justice appears, for everyone to suffer a cruel retribution -- some for their evilness, and some for their lack of understanding.--Frederic Bastiat

Burke summed it up with this statement "Liberty without wisdom, and without virtue is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint." (Reflections on the Revolution in France, 1790.)

And do you imagine that the government can impart wisdom and virtue?

164 posted on 12/22/2001 4:44:44 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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