Posted on 12/21/2001 11:46:28 AM PST by LiveFree2000
The moral minefield of a boy's dying wish 21dec01 But there's a problem – he's in hospital, he doesn't want to talk to his mum and dad about it, and having been sick and in and out of hospital since the age of 12, he has formed no friendships or relationships with girls from his peer group. The boy, let's call him Jack, simply wants to experience what every testosterone-driven heterosexual teenage boy thinks about, allegedly, every 17 seconds. Sex. So what does he do? It sounds like a hypothetical situation, but this story is true and Jack is real. His heartbreaking story about death and desire came to light last month when the child psychologist dealing with Jack wrote a letter to the Radio National program, Life Matters, in which moral dilemmas are discussed by academics. It's a fascinating topic for academic discussion: how does a minor and the people who care for him tread though the ethical and practical minefield to see that he gets such a wish? And firstly, should he even be granted his wish? While many of us might scream reflexively "Yes! Of course!", cautious ethicists may ask questions. Is a 15 year-old, officially a child, intellectually and emotionally competent to make such a mature decision? Do the parents have a right to know? Should the woman involved be charged with the criminal offence of having sex with a minor? Should a prostitute be involved? Should the hospital staff help to organise something? All valid questions ripe for discussion, but forget the academic debate. What happened to Jack himself? Yesterday, the child psychologist – who wishes to remain anonymous – told The Daily Telegraph the rest of the dying boy's story. He had become involved after a nurse tending Jack – the only person Jack took into his confidence – urged the boy to talk to him. So Jack spoke to the child psychologist, who specifically deals with children dying of terminal diseases, and this was not the first time the psychologist had heard of such a wish from a teenage boy. "He had been sick for quite a long period and his schooling was very disrupted, so he hadn't had many opportunities to acquire and retain friends, and his access to young women was pretty poor," said the psychologist. "But he was very interested in young women and was experiencing that surge of testosterone that teenage boys have." So Jack and the psychologist had a series of thorough discussions in which they went through every possible permutation of what might happen to him physically and emotionally so that he was "completely prepared" for the prospect of living out his final dream. Jack's state of mind, he said, was sensible and mature and psychologically, totally competent. As he said: "Terminally ill kids get very wise, very quickly" and Jack had been sick for a long time. The hospital staff who knew about Jack's wish at first wanted to help, their first reaction being "let's do a whip around and pay for a prostitute" but of course ethical and legal considerations stopped them in their tracks. The psychologist also had canvassed members of the clergy, and found an interesting response: "It really polarised them, about half said what's your problem? And the other half said [the idea] demeans women and reduces the sexual act to being just a physical one. "I just saw it as a legitimate request of a young man who wants to experience something that can do no harm." The psychologist said that with Jack, he rigorously questioned what damage might be done to him as a result of fulfilling his wish, and the answer came up every time: none. "Everyone's uncomfortable with teenage sex, period," said the psychologist. "Adolescents becoming sexual is enormously confronting, and a lot of people believe that kids shouldn't be sexual. But we are sexual from the womb to the tomb – that's my view. "But ethics and morals aside, in children dying over a long period of time, there is often a condition we call 'skin hunger'." This happens when a child, seriously ill and in and out of hospital and receiving medical treatment over a long period, yearns for non-clinical contact because "mostly when people touch them, it's to do something unpleasant, something that might hurt". "So you ask," said the psychologist, "what was this young man wanting? "Was he wanting a cuddle?" Probably yes, but as his illness and its treatment hadn't obliterated his normal teenage urges, he also really wanted that consummate experience. So without his parents knowing, and completely without the involvement of the hospital staff, and not – it must be stressed – on the hospital's premises, Jack "did engage in the act and it was everything he wished it to be". "He was very, very happy and only slightly disappointed that it was over quickly." "The act", his dying wish, was with a sex worker who was "organised by friends who thought it was the right thing to do". All precautions were taken, and the friends made sure the act was fully consensual and involved no abuse or exploitation. As for the legal ramifications of such a case, "quite clearly the law was broken, but of the people involved, most didn't give a toss," the psychologist said. And what of the parent's right to know about their son? Jack simply didn't want to talk to them about it. He loved them, but they are religious and he didn't want them to know. Anyway, what 15-year-old boy does want to talk to his parents about sex, even under normal circumstances? There is also legal precedence for a minor of sufficient maturity and intelligence to be given confidential medical treatment but does sex with a prostitute count as treatment? "Absolutely. It is absolutely part of therapy," said the psychologist, "Because it was what he wanted. People talk about a trip to Disneyland being therapeutic what's the difference? It was what he wanted." So Jack got what he wanted, and last week, he finally lost his fight with the cancer.
Is it right or wrong to grant a dying teenaged boy his wish to have sex? LUCY CLARK examines a modern ethical dilemma:
A 15 YEAR-OLD boy is terminally ill with cancer. He knows he doesn't have very long to live, and he has a dying wish. It is not to go to Disneyland or to meet his favourite actor, rock or sports star but it is this: he wants to make love to a woman.
Pun intended? ;o)
You have it upside down. The Constitution sets limits on government, not citizens. If it's not listed, the government can't (constitutionally) do it. Not that the government cares. BTW, the Constitution doesn't matter in this case, it's in Great Briton.
/john
What commandment?
"Honor thy father and mother?"
That has nothing to do with this thread.
Don't dodge this approach as to whether what he did is unlawful or not.
I thought the point of this thread was whether what happened was right or wrong.
But for the Law how do you know the difference between right and wrong?
Do you get personal messages from God?
Look, I'm not asking for much. Just a verse prohibitng concubines.
Over 100 posts so far by self-righteous idiots and not a single cite to a verse backing up their position.
You are a piece of work. Sex with a prostitute? Sure! Lesbianism? No problem! But for a 'heathen Jew' to be so 'blind' as to deny the divinity of Jesus, now THAT'S an awful thing.
signed,
--a Jew.
Not being familiar with the modern Jewish faith, I obviously confuse Talmudic "law" with Mosaic "Law". It was certainly not my intention to bring cultic arguments into this.
I'll stick to the BIBLICAL definition of adultery: having sex with a woman who is married.
Ok, fair enough. I will continue to research on the topic.
Now, seeing that you do believe in the authority of the New Testament, how does Rom 3:19-24 fit your argument? I'm not implying that this boy will "go to Hell" for what he did - I'm saying that without the saving grace of Jesus Christ, not a single one of us will make it to Heaven. I don't know that boy's heart, so I don't know for certain where he stands in relation to Eternity.
(Btw, this is a good reference on the NT and it's "replacement" of the Mosaic Law for Christians: (here) )
:) ttt
Can you site your source, please?
As OWK was insightful enough to discern, I was using hyperbole to make a point. Most of the libertarians seem to have no qualms whatsoever about this. Only OWK has expressed some reservations about a 15 year old's ability to give consent. Since y'all seem so gung ho on it, where would you draw the line? At what point would such a request reach a threshold where you would find it unacceptable?
Next thing you know, some terminally ill young lad will be asking the Make-A-Wish Foundation to help make his S&M fantasy come true. What is the limit?
A likely possibility....
If so...any bets on how fast NAMBLA jumps on that Bandwagon ?? ! ??
I say, Christ added to the law to make the point that nobody could keep the law, thus the need for a Saviour. Then the law was nailed to the cross. Anybody doesn't believe me, read the New Testament. Paul said it, not me!
Maybe everyone does.
The Talmud is the biggest collection of outright nonsense mankind has ever assembled.
Have you read it? Of course not.
Indeed, I think Judaism is the only religion on the planet -- besides Scientology -- whose 'holy text' is so mind-numbingly idiotic that they have yet to put a version of it online.
If it were my son, and this was done without my knowledge and consent, I would be raising hell about it. By what right or authority did those who arranged this do it? By what right did they remove the father and mother's parental rights?
If a school conducts physical exams of students without the parent's consent, libertarians are up in arms. But if a (presumably) government psychologist from Britain's socialized medical system pimps for a 15 year old without his parents even being made aware of the situation, that's okay?
That is irrelevant to the thread, and hypothetical.
I feel no great need to answer a hypothetical.
He he he he he.
Obviously you have not attempted to read the Koran.
So you think it is okay to get a 15 year old drunk and videotape him having sex?
Better have a good attorney lined up before you do something like this.
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