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Thanks for the links... Does one of those point me to a cold-blooded vs. warm-blooded discussion?

That discussion is out there but I don't have that right to hand.

Also, somewhere earlier in this thread there was a reference made to Earth revolving around Saturn? What's that all about?

Oh boy..

I don't go around the internet trying to introduce people to the Saturn theory out of the blue. If somebody walks straight up and asks me about it, however...

All antique religions were astral in nature, the name associations between gods and planets being primordial. Now, if you were to pay some group of primitives in our modern world, such as democrats or evolutionists, to devise an astral religion outright from scratch, they would invariably end up worshipping the sun and the moon. Whatever's in third place in the sky today is WAY back in third place.

The two chieftain gods of all antique religious systems, however, were invariably the planets Jupiter and Saturn, Zeus and Kronos. That makes no sense given present realities, but it gets better.

The littlest bit of reading into antique sources turns up a wealth of information pointing to a different kind of sky in the antique world. Writers like Hesiod and Ovid constantly refer to a golden age prior to the flood as an age of Kronos (Saturn), when Kronos was the "king of heaven", and they refer to antediluvians as "children of Kronos". The languge is fairly simple; the sun is the "king of heaven" now.

But it gets better. Articles in the journals of Assyriology in the early 1900s turned up the fact that virtually all of the names used for the sun in the ancient near east were names which had originally been used for the planet Saturn, and then had been transferred to the sun.

Like I say, this stuff is JUST A THEORY; without owning a time machine, I've got no way of proving any of this to anybody, and you sure as hell do not see me jumping up and down demanding that any of this be taught as a fact in public schools at public expense.

But the simplest possible interpretation of what Hesiod, Plato, Ovid, and numerous others are claiming is that Jupiter and Saturn very recently comprised a small double star system, and that we were part of that system. The flood and the various cosmic disasters you read about in ancient literature amount to descriptions of the mayhem which ensued as that elder system was captured by our present sun and the component bodies began to orbit the sun separately.

Saturn and the Antique System

Egyptian enclosed crescent (prototype cosmic ship) and Babylonian Shamesh petroglyph

What the artists actually saw...

The Shamesh glyph is, in fact, the same thing as the familiar Islamic icon which is normally taken to be a star-moon icon. In real life, that cannot happen, i.e. a star will never be seen inside the crescent of the moon, simply because the unlit part of the moon will occult the star.

Egyptian artwork consistently replicates the cosmic alignment shown above as noted in several of the articles linked below. Here, the Mars/Venus alignment shows up on a piece of jewelry (shen-bond). The alignment which Egyptian and near Eastern art depicts consistently shows Earth, Mars, and Venus lined up in a sort of a stack below the gas giant. This is similar to what we saw when the string of comets followed eachother like a shish-kabob into Jupter a few years back.

The Saturn Myths: A brief introduction to what is emerging as the grand unifying theory of catastrophism.

Images courtesy of Kronia Communications

At this point, the authors of several of the variants of a Saturn thesis have their own WWW sites and generally do a better job of expounding those theories than I can. What I am attempting to provide which those sites do not is a sort of a businessman's big-picture view of the manner in which a number of the various puzzle pieces fit together, including the question of Jaynsian anomalies. My own general estimation of Saturn theory variants at this point is as follow: I believe that Ev Cochrane and David Talbott have done a better job of excavating and describing the Saturn system (the age just prior to ours) than other authors have. Nonetheless, they do not offer a plausible theory of how anything like the Saturn system could have come about in the first place or any sort of a general system of cosmology; Al DeGrazia and Earl Milton do that, and their "Solaria Binaria" is therefore my choice for first book to read on the topic. The fact that it can be had in PDF form for $10 along with twenty some other published works doesn't hurt.

Major WWW sites dealing with the Saturn thesis include:

Further Thoughts on the Topic

The Ship of Heaven: Egyptian Iconography and the antique system.

Petroglyphs: Images of the former sun on the walls of caves.

Intimations of an Alien Sky: Article on the antique system (Cardona)

Darkness and the Deep: Dwardu Cardona on the early stages of the antique system

Harold Tresman's Version of this whole business; an article posted to talk.origins, summer 1995. Geological Genesis, (C)1993 Harold Tresman, Chronology & Catastrophism Workshop (ISSN: 0951-5985) August 1993 Number1.

From a dwarf to a giant and back again, over and over: Ev Cochrane on the recurring myth of the warrior-hero who changes his size periodically.

Green Star: Egyptian descriptions of the green sun which they worshipped.

Saturn and the Antique System

What the artists actually saw...

Further Thoughts on the Topic

Other Catastrophism Links