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To: agrace
I see where the confusion is, yes, wherever Jesus is, His Mother is there also. For Catholics we know that if a Church is built Jesus will be recieved in Holy Communion and always present in the taberacle. In this appearance of Our Lady, she appears pregnant, in fact she is a living tabernacle.

In the Gospel, the angel appeared to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus, Mary brought Jesus to us when she said yes to God. Mary also brings Jesus to us when she appears, just like she did at Guadalupe. We can be like Elizabeth when Mary went to visit her, or like John the Baptist who was sanctified in Elizabeths womb when Mary spoke to her.

Read Our Lady's canticle in Luke.

59 posted on 12/12/2001 9:01:35 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I see where the confusion is, yes, wherever Jesus is, His Mother is there also. For Catholics we know that if a Church is built Jesus will be recieved in Holy Communion and always present in the taberacle. In this appearance of Our Lady, she appears pregnant, in fact she is a living tabernacle.

Look, I'll be totally honest with you. I am an evangelical Christian, have done some research into the RCC using their own material - the online Catholic encyclopedia, RCC catechism etc - and I have some serious issues with a lot of it. I'm not here to attack you, always like a constructive discussion, but just wanted to be honest up front. I don't usually post on these threads, but your post caught my eye and raised questions.

That said, I am not familiar with the Guadalupe appearance (I have read about others, approved ones and otherwise) - Mary appears pregnant? WHY would she do that? Jesus is the risen Lord - He is not in the womb. That seems counterproductive to me, as if He is hidden away and the emphasis is taken away from Him. And to say she is a living tabernacle is a little hard to handle - maybe she was at one time, but she is no longer pregnant - why be represented as such?

Also, you said that you know that if a church is built, Jesus is there in the tabernacle. Are you referring to the temple that Mary requested be built to her? If so, why does she not say that he is to build a temple for Jesus? Is His presence to be assumed, as you said? Again the emphasis is drawn away.

In the Gospel, the angel appeared to Mary to announce the birth of Jesus, Mary brought Jesus to us when she said yes to God. Mary also brings Jesus to us when she appears, just like she did at Guadalupe. We can be like Elizabeth when Mary went to visit her, or like John the Baptist who was sanctified in Elizabeths womb when Mary spoke to her.

If Mary had said no, God would have found another willing vessel and we would be talking about her right now instead, don't you think? So in that sense, Mary didn't "bring" Jesus to us. And why does she need to bring Jesus to us when she appears? Especially in the form of an unborn child. Where is the gospel message in that? In fact, since I am not familiar with the Guadalupe appearance, is the gospel message found in Mary's words at all?

No doubt you didn't expect to get into this when you made your post. :) Honestly no attack intended, just seeking perspective for stuff I find incredible. And I find the fact that Jesus is not mentioned at all to be pretty hard to accept. You'd think that Mary's presence/involvement would be the one that was assumed rather than focused on. Sorry, the questions just sort of snowballed. Thanks.

163 posted on 12/12/2001 1:44:30 PM PST by agrace
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