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New Gun Show Bill Is Not What They Say
The firing line ^ | 12/05/01 | Drizzt

Posted on 12/05/2001 3:31:44 PM PST by Patriot2000

GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY Re: S. 890, The McCain-Lieberman Bill: "Gun Show Loophole Closing and Gun Law Enforcement Act of 2001." by Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Mass media publicity on the newly proposed gun-show bill is grossly inaccurate. The bill has almost nothing to do with what you've probably heard so far. The so-called "gun-show loophole" headlines are a minor detail and basically obscure what the bill really does. I've just finished studying the eight pages of legalese. Here is it what it calls for: 1. Unprecedented federal control over gun shows nationwide -- perfectly legal gun shows become strictly outlawed without prior federal approval, licensing and registration of each show; 2. Centralized federal licensing and registration of every gun-show promoter in the nation; 3. Centralized federal registration of every vendor -- including non-gun vendors -- at any gun show in the country. In order for me to sell my BOOKS at a gun show I'll have to pre-register and prove who I am, or face arrest; a private individual looking to sell a single gun would be treated as a vendor under this law and must be registered even if the gun isn't sold; 4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering; 5. Centralized collection of "any other information" on gun-show attendees, as determined solely by the Secretary of the Treasury; 6. Imprisonment for attending a gun show and failing to give up any information required by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury; 7. Imprisonment of any gun-show promoter who fails to register a single vendor; 8. Imprisonment of gun-show promoters who cannot prove they notified every person attending a gun show of the new rules, and obtained from attendees any information the Secretary of the Treasury mandates by regulation; 9. Centralized collection of "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the gun show itself; 10. Submission by gun-show promoters of vendor registration logs a) 30 days before any gun show, and b) additional submission of updated vendor registration logs 72 hours before any gun show, and c) additional submission of vendor registration logs within five days of the close of any gun show, under penalty of arrest and imprisonment for non-compliance; 11. Identification of vendors only by use of federally approved photo ID that may include use of a social security number, electronically encoded data, or "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprint, voice print, retina scan, iris scan, or similar (as defined under 18 USC 1028(d)(2)); 12. Creation of a new license (in addition to a gun-show-promoter license), similar to FFLs, for individuals who want access to the NICS national background check system for facilitating gun-show sales for private citizens; 13. Regulations to be issued by the Secretary of the Treasury on the procedures, data collections, methods and implementation of the entire process to federally control gun shows, in addition to the requirements made by the proposed statute; such regulations will not be known, drafted or even suggested, until after the McCain-Lieberman law is enacted; 14. The proposed bill also puts pressure on state governments to make at least 95% of their law enforcement records for the past 30 years openly available to the federal government; and -- makes unlimited funds available for the states to comply with these federal goals; -- requires annual federal review of states' compliance; -- increases penalties (up to ten years imprisonment) for record-keeping violations; -- grants states permission to make even more restrictive requirements without being out of compliance with these new federal laws (and by implication, puts states that resist these rules in federal trouble); -- provides hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for more law enforcement under numerous programs including project Exile and others; -- hires 200 more Federal BATF Agents; -- provides $10 million to the National Institute for Justice to give out for research on "technologies that limit the use of a gun to the owner"; and -- provides for annual reports (in great detail) by the Attorney General to Congress on whether the Brady law is working; 15. Enlargement of the federal bureaucracy and appropriation from taxpayers of "such funds as are necessary" to license, register and monitor an estimated ten million non-criminals who attend the thousands of gun shows held annually in America; and 16. Oh yes, I almost forgot about the so-called "loophole" part the media is so excited about -- the McCain-Lieberman bill will make an honest private citizen a criminal for transferring a gun to another honest private citizen, without first registering the transfer with, and getting permission from, the federal government (represented by the FBI at its data complex in Clarksburg, West Virginia). Transfer or possession of a firearm to or by a criminal (a "federally prohibited possessor") is completely unaffected by the McCain-Lieberman "loophole" bill, so I guess it's accurate to characterize it as a loophole bill. To sum up: Perfectly legal gun sales -- with no victims or criminal activity of any kind -- are outlawed at gun shows by the McCain-Lieberman bill, unless the sale is pre-registered with the federal government; real crimes are totally unaffected; and your friends in the federal government take over full control of gun shows -- which have been previously free of government infringement for more than 200 years. Please write your local news outlet and politely request a correction. Permission to circulate or use any or all of this report is granted, provided my credit and contact information is included. Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Bloomfield Press, 4718 E. Cactus #440 • Phoenix, AZ 85032 • 602-996-4020 • alan@gunlaws.com • http://www.gunlaws.com • "We publish the gun laws." __________________ "I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude." - -- Ted Nugent 12-05-2001 04:24 PM GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY Re: S. 890, The McCain-Lieberman Bill: "Gun Show Loophole Closing and Gun Law Enforcement Act of 2001." by Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Mass media publicity on the newly proposed gun-show bill is grossly inaccurate. The bill has almost nothing to do with what you've probably heard so far. The so-called "gun-show loophole" headlines are a minor detail and basically obscure what the bill really does. I've just finished studying the eight pages of legalese. Here is it what it calls for: 1. Unprecedented federal control over gun shows nationwide -- perfectly legal gun shows become strictly outlawed without prior federal approval, licensing and registration of each show; 2. Centralized federal licensing and registration of every gun-show promoter in the nation; 3. Centralized federal registration of every vendor -- including non-gun vendors -- at any gun show in the country. In order for me to sell my BOOKS at a gun show I'll have to pre-register and prove who I am, or face arrest; a private individual looking to sell a single gun would be treated as a vendor under this law and must be registered even if the gun isn't sold; 4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering; 5. Centralized collection of "any other information" on gun-show attendees, as determined solely by the Secretary of the Treasury; 6. Imprisonment for attending a gun show and failing to give up any information required by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury; 7. Imprisonment of any gun-show promoter who fails to register a single vendor; 8. Imprisonment of gun-show promoters who cannot prove they notified every person attending a gun show of the new rules, and obtained from attendees any information the Secretary of the Treasury mandates by regulation; 9. Centralized collection of "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the gun show itself; 10. Submission by gun-show promoters of vendor registration logs a) 30 days before any gun show, and b) additional submission of updated vendor registration logs 72 hours before any gun show, and c) additional submission of vendor registration logs within five days of the close of any gun show, under penalty of arrest and imprisonment for non-compliance; 11. Identification of vendors only by use of federally approved photo ID that may include use of a social security number, electronically encoded data, or "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprint, voice print, retina scan, iris scan, or similar (as defined under 18 USC 1028(d)(2)); 12. Creation of a new license (in addition to a gun-show-promoter license), similar to FFLs, for individuals who want access to the NICS national background check system for facilitating gun-show sales for private citizens; 13. Regulations to be issued by the Secretary of the Treasury on the procedures, data collections, methods and implementation of the entire process to federally control gun shows, in addition to the requirements made by the proposed statute; such regulations will not be known, drafted or even suggested, until after the McCain-Lieberman law is enacted; 14. The proposed bill also puts pressure on state governments to make at least 95% of their law enforcement records for the past 30 years openly available to the federal government; and -- makes unlimited funds available for the states to comply with these federal goals; -- requires annual federal review of states' compliance; -- increases penalties (up to ten years imprisonment) for record-keeping violations; -- grants states permission to make even more restrictive requirements without being out of compliance with these new federal laws (and by implication, puts states that resist these rules in federal trouble); -- provides hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for more law enforcement under numerous programs including project Exile and others; -- hires 200 more Federal BATF Agents; -- provides $10 million to the National Institute for Justice to give out for research on "technologies that limit the use of a gun to the owner"; and -- provides for annual reports (in great detail) by the Attorney General to Congress on whether the Brady law is working; 15. Enlargement of the federal bureaucracy and appropriation from taxpayers of "such funds as are necessary" to license, register and monitor an estimated ten million non-criminals who attend the thousands of gun shows held annually in America; and 16. Oh yes, I almost forgot about the so-called "loophole" part the media is so excited about -- the McCain-Lieberman bill will make an honest private citizen a criminal for transferring a gun to another honest private citizen, without first registering the transfer with, and getting permission from, the federal government (represented by the FBI at its data complex in Clarksburg, West Virginia). Transfer or possession of a firearm to or by a criminal (a "federally prohibited possessor") is completely unaffected by the McCain-Lieberman "loophole" bill, so I guess it's accurate to characterize it as a loophole bill. To sum up: Perfectly legal gun sales -- with no victims or criminal activity of any kind -- are outlawed at gun shows by the McCain-Lieberman bill, unless the sale is pre-registered with the federal government; real crimes are totally unaffected; and your friends in the federal government take over full control of gun shows -- which have been previously free of government infringement for more than 200 years. Please write your local news outlet and politely request a correction. Permission to circulate or use any or all of this report is granted, provided my credit and contact information is included. Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Bloomfield Press, 4718 E. Cactus #440 • Phoenix, AZ 85032 • 602-996-4020 • alan@gunlaws.com • http://www.gunlaws.com • "We publish the gun laws." __________________ "I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude." - -- Ted Nugent 12-05-2001 04:24 PM SamAdams SamAdams


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 12/05/2001 3:31:44 PM PST by Patriot2000 (leighman1@msn.com)
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To: Patriot2000
Format it.
----------------

GUN-SHOW BILL IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY

Re: S. 890, The McCain-Lieberman Bill: "Gun Show Loophole Closing and Gun Law Enforcement Act of 2001." by Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Mass media publicity on the newly proposed gun-show bill is grossly inaccurate.

The bill has almost nothing to do with what you've probably heard so far. The so-called "gun-show loophole" headlines are a minor detail and basically obscure what the bill really does. I've just finished studying the eight pages of legalese.

Here is it what it calls for:

1. Unprecedented federal control over gun shows nationwide -- perfectly legal gun shows become strictly outlawed without prior federal approval, licensing and registration of each show;

2. Centralized federal licensing and registration of every gun-show promoter in the nation;

3. Centralized federal registration of every vendor -- including non-gun vendors -- at any gun show in the country. In order for me to sell my BOOKS at a gun show I'll have to pre-register and prove who I am, or face arrest; a private individual looking to sell a single gun would be treated as a vendor under this law and must be registered even if the gun isn't sold;

4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering; 5. Centralized collection of "any other information" on gun-show attendees, as determined solely by the Secretary of the Treasury;

6. Imprisonment for attending a gun show and failing to give up any information required by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury;

7. Imprisonment of any gun-show promoter who fails to register a single vendor;

8. Imprisonment of gun-show promoters who cannot prove they notified every person attending a gun show of the new rules, and obtained from attendees any information the Secretary of the Treasury mandates by regulation;

9. Centralized collection of "any other information" the Secretary of the Treasury decides, by regulation, is necessary on vendors, attendees, and the gun show itself;

10. Submission by gun-show promoters of vendor registration logs a) 30 days before any gun show, and b) additional submission of updated vendor registration logs 72 hours before any gun show, and c) additional submission of vendor registration logs within five days of the close of any gun show, under penalty of arrest and imprisonment for non-compliance;

11. Identification of vendors only by use of federally approved photo ID that may include use of a social security number, electronically encoded data, or "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprint, voice print, retina scan, iris scan, or similar (as defined under 18 USC 1028(d)(2));

12. Creation of a new license (in addition to a gun-show-promoter license), similar to FFLs, for individuals who want access to the NICS national background check system for facilitating gun-show sales for private citizens;

13. Regulations to be issued by the Secretary of the Treasury on the procedures, data collections, methods and implementation of the entire process to federally control gun shows, in addition to the requirements made by the proposed statute; such regulations will not be known, drafted or even suggested, until after the McCain-Lieberman law is enacted;

14. The proposed bill also puts pressure on state governments to make at least 95% of their law enforcement records for the past 30 years openly available to the federal government; and -- makes unlimited funds available for the states to comply with these federal goals; -- requires annual federal review of states' compliance; -- increases penalties (up to ten years imprisonment) for record-keeping violations; -- grants states permission to make even more restrictive requirements without being out of compliance with these new federal laws (and by implication, puts states that resist these rules in federal trouble); -- provides hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for more law enforcement under numerous programs including project Exile and others; -- hires 200 more Federal BATF Agents; -- provides $10 million to the National Institute for Justice to give out for research on "technologies that limit the use of a gun to the owner"; and -- provides for annual reports (in great detail) by the Attorney General to Congress on whether the Brady law is working;

15. Enlargement of the federal bureaucracy and appropriation from taxpayers of "such funds as are necessary" to license, register and monitor an estimated ten million non-criminals who attend the thousands of gun shows held annually in America; and

16. Oh yes, I almost forgot about the so-called "loophole" part the media is so excited about -- the McCain-Lieberman bill will make an honest private citizen a criminal for transferring a gun to another honest private citizen, without first registering the transfer with, and getting permission from, the federal government (represented by the FBI at its data complex in Clarksburg, West Virginia). Transfer or possession of a firearm to or by a criminal (a "federally prohibited possessor") is completely unaffected by the McCain-Lieberman "loophole" bill, so I guess it's accurate to characterize it as a loophole bill.

To sum up: Perfectly legal gun sales -- with no victims or criminal activity of any kind -- are outlawed at gun shows by the McCain-Lieberman bill, unless the sale is pre-registered with the federal government;

real crimes are totally unaffected;

and your friends in the federal government take over full control of gun shows -- which have been previously free of government infringement for more than 200 years.

Please write your local news outlet and politely request a correction. Permission to circulate or use any or all of this report is granted, provided my credit and contact information is included.

Alan Korwin, Author Gun Laws of America Bloomfield Press, 4718 E. Cactus #440 • Phoenix, AZ 85032 • 602-996-4020 •

alan@gunlaws.com • http://www.gunlaws.com • "We publish the gun laws." __________________ "I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude." - -- Ted Nugent

2 posted on 12/05/2001 3:39:16 PM PST by rollin
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To: rollin
R, The idea is to have godgov license their chosen, and then make sure that the transfer of EVERY firearm goes through this godgov licensed entity. For a "nomonal" fee {to be raised as needed at later dates until transfer of firearm is prohibitive because of cost} of course. And, giving a firearm to your son or any other relative is illegal unless that transfer takes place through godgov's middleman. Simply giving a firearm to a trusted relative or friend would make a person a felon. To have a firearm that transversed the middleman would be a felony wherein the person could never own' have, or hold a firearm fro the remainder of their life. This is EVIL!!! Peace and love, George.
3 posted on 12/05/2001 3:50:35 PM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park
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To: rollin
Please tell me that Bush would never sign this piece of garbage...
4 posted on 12/05/2001 3:51:50 PM PST by FreedomIsSimple
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To: FreedomIsSimple
He would sign it in a heartbeat, make no mistake. This bill must not ever become law.
5 posted on 12/05/2001 3:55:48 PM PST by Jesse
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To: Jesse
This bill must be totally defeated in every particular, period.
6 posted on 12/05/2001 4:01:13 PM PST by Anotherpundit
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To: rollin; Patriot2000
3. Centralized federal registration of every vendor -- including non-gun vendors -- at any gun show in the country. In order for me to sell my BOOKS at a gun show I'll have to pre-register and prove who I am, or face arrest; a private individual looking to sell a single gun would be treated as a vendor under this law and must be registered even if the gun isn't sold;

4. Centralized federal registration of EVERY PERSON who attends a gun show in America, whether or not they make purchases of anything at all -- you won't be allowed in without registering;

5. Centralized collection of "any other information" on gun-show attendees, as determined solely by the Secretary of the Treasury;

6. Imprisonment for attending a gun show and failing to give up any information required by regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury;

If you actually read the bill, all four of these provisions do not exist.

While I hope the bill fails and am pro Gun myself, it irks me that the Pro-gun lobby has to resort to the tactics of the Anti-gun lobby and the Democrats.

Check it out yourselves S. 890

7 posted on 12/05/2001 4:04:48 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: Patriot2000
11. Identification of vendors only by use of federally approved photo ID that may include use of a social security number, electronically encoded data, or "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprint, voice print, retina scan, iris scan, or similar (as defined under 18 USC 1028(d)(2))</B<;

I smell Tom Daschle looking to line his pockets with this one. See:

> SECURITY IN LOBBYING (Daschle's wife to work for Intelli-Check. A tie-in to a National ID?)
>Linda (Daschle) is also a lobbyist for the airline industry. I suspect we'll see airlines requiring drivers licenses be checked by Intelli-Check very soon. And from there, the machines will spread.

Indeed. And here it is.

8 posted on 12/05/2001 4:10:06 PM PST by Eala
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To: FreedomIsSimple
--and if he does, and any number of other 'republicans" do, then what? What's a freeper to do then? Keep supporting them?

I have no answers to those myself. I don't vote for any capital d or r person any longer. I would make one exception, cong. ron paul, but I wish he would just go independent.

The bill isn't passed yet, anyway, the point is moot so far, but it still needs to be stopped. It's a gross travesty at best, a dangerous further step towards full neutralization of gun owners and their rights. They know full instant confiscation wouldn't work, so the plan near as I can see it is to keep putting on so many layers of laws, combined with indoctrinating the kids, that within a few more years owning a gun will make you out to be a social pariah, like a habitual drunkard or something.

9 posted on 12/05/2001 4:14:39 PM PST by zog
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To: Marine Inspector
--I just read it. It says all vendors at the special event, not just vendors who sell guns. All the vendors need the license,near as I can see.

Like all bills, it's written in crapalese, so maybe I'm not reading it correctly. frank-lee-speaking, I think they are all bozos and a disgrace, I'd like to fire the lot of them and start over, but it's impossible practically to get enough people to NOT vote for any d's or r's, it be writ in holy stoneth someplace, you'll get crabgrass and dandruff if you "waste" your vote.

10 posted on 12/05/2001 4:23:21 PM PST by zog
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To: zog
--I just read it. It says all vendors at the special event, not just vendors who sell guns. All the vendors need the license,near as I can see.

At the begining of the bill it discribes Special Event Operators and Special Event Vendors. Special Event Vendors are vendors that sell firearms, and they are required to register and so forth.

Later in the bill, when talking about vendors the wording, "Special Event", is droped. One would assume, from the definitions at the begining of the bill, that these were Special Event Vendors, but this maybe some loophole planted for later use, as a catchall phrase.

Either way, this bill must not pass.

Marine Inspector

11 posted on 12/05/2001 4:46:45 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: *bang_list
Bang
12 posted on 12/05/2001 4:53:13 PM PST by AStack75
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To: Eala
Wow...thanks. You have a good memory. Only connection to Linda Daschle was an obscure Money Line one day headline some freeper picked up on :-)
13 posted on 12/05/2001 5:17:33 PM PST by LarryLied
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To: LarryLied
Wow...thanks. You have a good memory. Only connection to Linda Daschle was an obscure Money Line one day headline some freeper picked up on :-)

Thanks, LarryLied. I'd like to take credit, but I can't.

The National ID card is an issue of concern to me, and I have a file in which I make note of relevant items. (If you follow the link, understand that the second item was tongue-in-cheek.)

14 posted on 12/06/2001 4:49:06 PM PST by Eala
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To: rollin
BTTT
15 posted on 12/08/2001 11:45:30 AM PST by Gritty
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To: Jesse
I don't think he would.
16 posted on 12/08/2001 11:48:41 AM PST by caseyblane
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To: Patriot2000
Re: S890--

COSPONSORS(5)

Sen Carper, Thomas R. - 5/15/2001
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham - 7/17/2001
Sen DeWine, Michael - 5/15/2001
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. - 5/15/2001
Sen Schumer, Charles E. - 5/15/2001

The CREAM DeWINE process has already begun here in Ohio.

17 posted on 12/08/2001 12:08:11 PM PST by Commiewatcher
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To: Patriot2000
Sounds about as comforting as the "Patriot Act".

Does anyone know when McCains cancer is going to become malignant?

18 posted on 12/08/2001 12:14:46 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: George Frm Br00klyn Park
McCain is a menace to American liberty!
19 posted on 12/08/2001 12:21:34 PM PST by Standing Wolf
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To: Standing Wolf
"McCain is a menace to American liberty!"

SW, Agree 100%!! The guy proposes fascist legislation ALL the time. Peace and love, George.

20 posted on 12/09/2001 4:16:51 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park
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