Calling a Spade a Spade

Mercurial Times ^ | December 3, 2001 | Aaron Armitage

[Southack]

"He might have gone further, letting federal law enforcement track what content a person accesses over the internet, and, in his boundless desire to have unlimited authority over ordinary people, he might have required a lower standard of proof than probable cause. Maybe the only requirement would be that it's relevant to an investigation."

In the 1960's, a federal agency known as DARPANET created the original internet connection backbone with public taxpayer funds. As universities and later corporations later clamored for access to this system, contracts were signed (voluntarily) which continued to treat data traffic on this backbone as open, public information (traffic originating from an ISP that is connected to one gateway isn't prohibited from view by the other gateways or backbone repeaters - and in fact the very nature of reading the address that is encoded on each TC/PIP "packet" REQUIRES that every piece of data on the internet be reviewed by every piece of equipment which the data passes over/through). Today, this internet backbone connects all internet gateways (ISP's connect to the gateways).

Thus, learned people consider internet data traffic to be public information. The situation of Carnivore is therefor similar to police officers watching public traffic on freeways, except that Internet traffic can be encrypted by those who desire privacy to prevent searches with far better accuracy than can be done with cars.

Of course, there will always be the Chicken-Littles of the world crying that the sky is falling on the bill of rights whenever a police officer watches traffic on either an interstate freeway or an internet information super-hiway...

[A.J.Armitage]

In the 1960's, a federal agency known as DARPANET created the original internet connection backbone with public taxpayer funds. As universities and later corporations later clamored for access to this system, contracts were signed (voluntarily) which continued to treat data traffic on this backbone as open, public information (traffic originating from an ISP that is connected to one gateway isn't prohibited from view by the other gateways or backbone repeaters - and in fact the very nature of reading the address that is encoded on each TC/PIP "packet" REQUIRES that every piece of data on the internet be reviewed by every piece of equipment which the data passes over/through). Today, this internet backbone connects all internet gateways (ISP's connect to the gateways).

I know all of this. Your point?

Thus, learned people consider internet data traffic to be public information. The situation of Carnivore is therefor similar to police officers watching public traffic on freeways, except that Internet traffic can be encrypted by those who desire privacy to prevent searches with far better accuracy than can be done with cars.

Source.

Of course, there will always be the Chicken-Littles of the world crying that the sky is falling on the bill of rights whenever a police officer watches traffic on either an interstate freeway or an internet information super-hiway...

Free government is founded on suspicion, not confidence.

[Saundra Duffy]

Did you know that "calling a spade a spade" is politically incorrect up the wazoo? Some poor schmuck used that term in a Sacramento Council board meeting and an African American on the board had a HUGE HISSY FIT accusing the schmuck of racism and on and on it went. Big cat fight. The African American board member ended up having to apologize (sort of). Thought you'd like to know for what it's worth. And I always thought they were talking about CARDS! For victory & freedom!!!

[Southack]

I've provided you with sources in the past, however, you've never demonstrated that such sources are capable of swaying your biased, preconceived notions. It would seem that you merely ask for sources as a bluff in the hopes that no one provides them, as it certainly seems otherwise pointless to do so.

Therefore, if you dispute that each packet of internet data traffic must be read by every piece of hardware which it passes through (i.e., public), then you are welcome to debate that point in any manner in which you seem fit.

And if you don't dispute it, then no source is needed.

[John Farson]

It is nice to see someone here that is calling the Piper's tune.

[John Farson]

It is nice to see someone here that isn't calling the Piper's tune.

[Henchman]

Thank you Mr. Anarchy. I hate Clinton, but everything and everyone in the Gov. is not a jack booted thug. Indeed, the public doesn't have a clue as to the extent of crime in this country. The Constitution is not a suicide pact. In general, there is a lot of incompetancy, misguided Dem. programs, etc. But all are Americans, and have mothers, fathers and children as I presume do you. Therefor I would truct their judgement not to act imprudently more than yours.

[Southack]

Goodness, another Libertarian who joined FR at almost the same time as A.J...

Sure am glad that you agree with him.

< Chuckle >

[John Farson]

I wasn't a libertarian when I signed up.

[Southack]

Sounds like you started out on the right foot, then.

[A.J.Armitage]

I've provided you with sources in the past, however, you've never demonstrated that such sources are capable of swaying your biased, preconceived notions. It would seem that you merely ask for sources as a bluff in the hopes that no one provides them, as it certainly seems otherwise pointless to do so.

I'm sure that's exactly why you're showing no sources.

Therefore, if you dispute that each packet of internet data traffic must be read by every piece of hardware which it passes through (i.e., public), then you are welcome to debate that point in any manner in which you seem fit.

There's a difference between a piece of hardware and a person. No doubt, though, 200 posts from now you'll be saying I deny that packets of information are read by the hardware they go through.

[Southack]

"There's a difference between a piece of hardware and a person. No doubt, though, 200 posts from now you'll be saying I deny that packets of information are read by the hardware they go through."

Why leave such ambiguities to chance? Why not just state, unequivocably, that you either think that all internet packets are read by all machines (regardless of who owns each machine) that they cross, or not?

Is it really so difficult for you to take a black or white, firm stand on a single point?

[A.J.Armitage]

Why leave such ambiguities to chance? Why not just state, unequivocably, that you either think that all internet packets are read by all machines (regardless of who owns each machine) that they cross, or not?

Yes, and doesn't matter. The issue is having them read by people.

[UnBlinkingEye]

Think about what A.J. is trying to make you aware of, if Clinton appropriated these powers this forum would be calling for revolution.

Time to kiss the Constitution good-bye sheople.

[LiberalBassTurds]

Yes, and doesn't matter. The issue is having them read by people.

Having people read them... Help Me understand something, what are you trying to get across with your writings? Are these "feel good" peices for people who already agree with you? Are you trying to win people over to your side, to propose alternatives to the current adminstration's approach? If so, what are they?

[LiberalBassTurds]

Thanks UnBlinkingEye. I did pick up on that part of his post.

[tet68]

Don't hold back Merc,tell us how you really feel!!!

I know it's tough,living in Kalifornia but have ya'll considered getting a C&R License,it only costs thirty bucks and is good for three years.

Mine is due in the mail this week,it means I can buy any weapon over 50 years old or that have a specific historical interest and is listed on the ATF list from dealers or other C&R holders and have them shipped RIGHT to my door!

Check out www.milsurpshooter.net
It's a great gunboard and you'll find me there if I'm not freepin.

[tet68]

Allright,lets call a spade a shovel!

[A.J.Armitage]

I want to inspire people to fight to get rid of this stuff we've seen since the attacks. Actually, I'd like to get a rid of a lot more, but I'm willing to start small.

[UnBlinkingEye]

I've been reading through the thread and see that you and yours have a personal loss on 911.

My condolences and prayers. BTW, in my prayer, I couldn't bring myself to use your screen name so I prayed for him (meaning you), my guess is God understands...