Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it. To ignore the racist eugenic roots of population control is to ignore what it really is. I will not do so.
I know plenty of pro-abortion people. None of them consider an abortion to be a great joy. At least one of my closest friends experienced bloody nightmares for years after undergoing one. I'm not saying there aren't people out there who are casual about it. I'm saying I don't know them and can't speak for them.
No they don't consider a great joy, they are victims of the abortion industry and the culture of death as well. We all suffer from it, not just the babies who are murdered.
The difference between pro-abortion and pro-life is one of different perceptions of reality and different ethical structures (not ethics vs. no ethics). Pro-abortion people believe that it is entirely unrealistic to expect people to give up sexuality outide of marriage, or to be be willing to see off-spring result from such unions. Therefore it is as reasonable to legalize abortion as it is to legalize alcohol. Or - in the contrary - it is as unreasonable to prohibit abortion as it was to prohibit alcohol.
I agree it is not a matter of ethics vs. no-ethics. Rather it is a question of an ethics which recognizes abortion as the irredemably evil act that it is and a faulty ethics which seeks to rationalize abortion as a means to end.
But there are legitimate questions - probably never resolveable scientifically - about when human life actually begins.
There are not questions about when life begins. Any biologist with half a brain knows that a fetus is life and is human. The question is whether it is a person, and this cannot demonstrated scientifically- nor does it need to be.
I was struck by the Freeper response to 911. Nuke 'em! It's not a legal issue! War! Well, we all know what that means; the mass death of innocents including babies, dogs, trees, the old, the weak, flowers. I wonder how many of those expressing such sentiments are pro-life? And of those how many will justify their position by saying that there are considerations which transcend a baby's right to life?
It's easy to argue against a straw man called a 'Freeper.' Don't generalize there are people on this forum who hold vastly different views. I think you are right in that one cannot claim to be pro-life when seeking to indiscriminately attack life in other respect. I personally believe the description of which conflicts constitute a 'just war' is very narrow.
And finally there's the issue of birth control. Far too many pro-lifers are against birth conrtol (except abstinence) and do everything they can to prevent dissemination of information and devices - despite what you say about its morality.
I am personally against birth control, but the more important issue here is the coercive population control which seeks to force birth control and abortion upon 3rd world women. There have been many deaths and injuries due to the actions of those spreading the gospel of infertility.
"Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it. To ignore the racist eugenic roots of population control is to ignore what it really is. I will not do so."
As I pointed out earlier that is a selective use of the past. You're quick to forgive America and the old South but refuse to accept the apologizies of the eugenicists. Also you're identification of current population control with eugenics and racism is not universal (to say the least).
"they are victims of the abortion industry and the culture of death as well. We all suffer from it, not just the babies who are murdered."
Self-righteous, self-serving polemics. They don't consider themselves the victims of the abortion industry. They see people of your viewpoint attempting to victimize them.
"I agree it is not a matter of ethics vs. no-ethics. Rather it is a question of an ethics which recognizes abortion as the irredemably evil act that it is and a faulty ethics which seeks to rationalize abortion as a means to end."
The same.
"There are not questions about when life begins. Any biologist with half a brain knows that a fetus is life and is human. The question is whether it is a person, and this cannot demonstrated scientifically- nor does it need to be"
Again.
"Don't generalize there are people on this forum who hold vastly different views"
One cannot help but generalize in a very limited space. The comments you refer to do not apply to you.
"the more important issue here is the coercive population control which seeks to force birth control and abortion upon 3rd world women. There have been many deaths and injuries due to the actions of those spreading the gospel of infertility."
Then let's talk about it. Because I am for it and you against. Shall you begin, or I?