'Witchcraft' Murders Cast A Gruesome Spell

Washington Post ^ | November 28,2001 | SAO LUIS

[electron1]

In his mind's eye, the image of what Jose Antonio Serra saw in a burned patch of jungle on the Amazon's edge is still chillingly fresh -- not because the murder happened just seven weeks ago, but because there are some things a father can never forget.

What he found, a short walk from his family's mud hut, were the remains of his 13-year-old son: a figure on its knees, head buried in the dirt, genitals and middle figure removed with cuts that looked almost surgical. In shock, Serra noticed an odd detail: The mutilated body looked diminished, even shrunken. Then he noticed the gash in the boy's jugular vein, and realized that his blood had been drained.

[mamaduck]

I like this one:

Eat his body, drink his blood, and we'll sing a song of love, allelu, allelu, allelu, allelluia!

What?

[conservonator]

Demanded obedience = dark. Creating intelligent beings in order for them to worship you = dark. That you choose to not understand this explains why you can't tell fantasy from reality. "No, really, it changed from cheap wine into *real*blood*! Don't look behind the curtain!"

Your grasp of Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular is tenuous at best. He doesn’t demand anything. He gave us free will we can choose to follow His path or some other path. Your choice is obvious. Good luck.

[MSCASEY]

You know that there are Christians that have deep and real concerns with this movie. They are speaking from their heart and being mocked for it. Even if you disagree with them do you think you should join in and mock also? This is what I meant by bashing.

To: ~EagleNebula~
Ok, but can my tin foil cap save me from them too? Or does that only work for aliens?
<81 posted on 11/27/01 1:06 PM Pacific by Outlaw76

It is obvious from this and many other post from outlaw76 that this person is going to flame anyone who has a diffrent opinion. You post back and forth with 76 all the time so you know this.

To:~EagleNebula~

BS! I have a 9-yr old daughter who told me that the last time she played at her new friend's house, the little friend wanted her to play they were witches!!!
Did it all the time when I was a kid. And I'm older than Rowling. Guess it was all that "Great Pumpkin" influence that did me in. Kid's have pretended to be witches and goblins and fairies and genies and cowboys and wizards and Superman and dinosaurs and teachers and preachers and policemen and ghosts and vampires and ballerinas and princesses and elves and gnomes and grownups for decades.
193 posted on 11/27/01 1:19 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

Here you were addressing EagleNebula's post about a concern she had.

To: ~EagleNebula~
Help! My daughter saw the Harry Potter and did not want to go to school the next day! She then cast Devil roots on me! I AM STUCK IN THE BASEMENT WITH THE NAMELESS ONE! HELP!
203 posted on 11/27/01 1:32 PM Pacific by 94Revolution

Here because of the same concern she is being mocked.

To: 94Revolution
My daughter saw the Harry Potter and did not want to go to school the next day! OMG! I didn't want to go to work the next day either...oh the horrors!
214 posted on 11/27/01 1:39 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

Here you jump in and mock her too!

To: MSCASEY
I think you mistook my meaning... I was replying to the following:

Wrong!!! My kids don't pretend to be witches, goblins or any of the such. Only good things do they pretend to be, because it is only good things that I like to be in their heads and hearts. MCD

If you can't see he scary parts, you have no understanding of true horor. *shivers*

205 posted on 11/27/01 1:35 PM Pacific by Outlaw76

Here is your budy outlaw76 mocking me because I said I like to put good things in my kid's heads and hearts.

To: 94Revolution
Do you brainwash often? Or just twice a month? Now wiping the coffee off my screen...
215 posted on 11/27/01 1:40 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

That was another insult that came from revolution94 for the same reason. You were enouraging it.

To: MSCASEY; Outlaw76
Then people wonder why society is so violent and kids are killing one an other.

Oh, for cryin' out loud, whatever you think of Harry Potter don't go blaming J.K. Rowling for the evil in the world.
207 posted on 11/27/01 1:36 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

You were just inviting 76 to jump in and insult some more.

To: Outlaw76
I don't blame Harry for anything, hell they guy isn't even real.
Knew you didn't. Just invitin' ya along for the ride...
219 posted on 11/27/01 1:42 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

What ride were you inviting your bud outlaw76 on? Thought maybe a little more insults and mockery would be fun huh?

To: Outlaw76
You'd better watch it or MSCASEY will start calling your father names...
91 posted on 11/28/01 1:11 PM Pacific by Ward Smythe

There you go with your bud again. Insulting a Christian. Never did that to Mr. Vega though! Even though he insulted MY FATHER and you say yours too! I wonder what you would do if someone called your wife a fat, ugly pig and they meant it?
MCD

[Ward Smythe]

You know that there are Christians that have deep and real concerns with this movie.

And if you read all of my posts you will understand that while I came to a different conclusion, I respect that position.

They are speaking from their heart and being mocked for it. Even if you disagree with them do you think you should join in and mock also?

Half of them are quoting The Onion. Then there was the post by "Sister Taffy" whose whole purpose in life and her website seemed to be to mock Christianity. The post was pulled and I believe she was banned. But not before a lot of Christians jumped on her anti-Potter bandwagon before reading far enough to understand what she was really up to.

It just really gets under my skin when Christians peddle misinformation. It make us all look stupid and it damages the cause of Christ. Remember the "Proctor and Gamble and McDonald's give to Satan's church" stories that floated around a few years back? Hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of Christians responded to those - and they were hoaxes. My email is flooded daily by friends and family saying "I know this one is true." Snopes.com is our friend.

Ignorance is not acceptable just because it is "for the Lord."

This is what I meant by bashing.

In your case, I thought, and still do think, that you were way over the line by calling Mr. Vega the son of Satan. I know what you meant, and I know your intentions were in the right place, but that was inappropriate and inexcuseable (sp?) on this forum for people of all faiths (or no faith). In retrospect, perhaps I should've responded to you privately. It's just one of those things that continues to make the world of non-believers/non-Christians think we're baptising in the shallow end of the gene pool.

Yeah, I've poked some good natured fun at some of the absurd comments. Humor is also a gift from God, as is our imagination.

But what about the bashing of those of us Christians who have read Harry Potter and have come to different conclusions?

I've been told I'm "rebellious" and "disobedient" and that I'm sending my kids to hell.

All because of a CHILDREN'S FANTASY BOOK..

And if you haven't read it you - and everyone else judging me and those of us who find no problem with the books - are simply speaking out of ignorance.

[MSCASEY]

First of all I would like you to know that I was not the one that hit the abuse button on Mr. Vegas post. So other people were just as offended as I was. Secondly you are entitled to your opinion about what I said regarding Mr. Vega.

I did not tell him to mock and belittle My Father. There is a difference when it is out of ignorance and just not getting it. Mr. Vega made the post and I took the post exactly the way he meant it. He mocked the living God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And he knew exactly what he was doing.

I believe that Mr. Vega statement was probably more Anti-Semitic than Anti-Christian. I would probably say something to the same effect to the moron that is head of the 11-hour Remnant. The guy did a mass mailing one time and the stuff he was spewing was as you say straight from the pit of hell. He was full of hate and he knew exactly what he was saying and doing.

You made the statement that my comment was straight from the pit of hell. But you did not say the same thing about Mr. Vega's statement. Would you allow someone to say something really cruel to your wife or sons and take it so lightly? Would you say well maybe if I am nice and kind to this person maybe they will come around to like you dear? Somehow I don't think so. Not seeing the way you jumped on me regarding what I said to Mr. Vega. And as far as I know this is a person you do not even know. Yet if you love Your Father why would you tolerate it? Do you love Him as much as you love your wife or sons?

I am sorry that my statement offended you, but I would say it again given the same situation.

I am glad that we can discuss our differences civilly. And I am not familiar with the Onion. See we all learn new things.
MCD

[Ward Smythe]

Let's review:

After you called us "Potterheads," Aquinasfan asked you where they (we) went. You responded:

Probably looking for another thread where it will be easy to speak out and say that there is no such thing as witchcraft. It is easy to see Mr. Vega's god. Just remember one day Our Father will send His Son to take care of Mr. Vega's father.

In that you revealed your venom and hatred for those of us you refer to as "Potterheads." And I saw venom and hatred for non-believers. Regardless of anything you perceive that we are doing wrong, venom and hatred are hardly "Christlike" qualities. And don't call it "righteous anger" 'cause there's a big 'ol difference.

Finally, leave my wife and kids out of this.

[MSCASEY]

Thats my point. Not everyone believes in the bible. And you will never convince me that because one doesnt follow the bible that they are doomed to hell. You will never convince me that my wife is going to hell for the sole reason that she is Jewish and doesnt follow Jesus or the bible.

What I said is that everyone who takes the mark will be doomed. And I wasn't the one who said it. I only repeated what I have read.

For that reason I believe that the mark will not be Digital Angel. Because once a person takes that mark there is no saying sorry I didn't mean it. So IMHO and I could be wrong I believe that when the time comes to take the mark that your wife and anyone else in taking the mark will be declaring the beast as their god. I believe the mark will be taken once the anti-Christ has sat in the temple declaring himself to be god, and the slaughter which is going to occur in Judea (West Bank) has occurred. This will most likely result in the peace treaty that the Jewish people that are now living there will remain there but under Palestinian rule. Somehow I doubt your wife will take the mark.

As far as Digital Angel I believe that is absolutely going to happen. Whether it is the product that is now made by Applied Digital Solutions or it is another name or another company I would make a bet that it is coming. National ID cards are already in discussion. In England it has already been stated that it will happen. Blair has said people don't have to take them but if they don't they will not be able to buy gas, or have a bank account. Once thefts of these cards begin to happen and if someone begins to hack the chips in the cards, the next step will be Digital Angel or something like it. In the Forehead or right hand (The skin is tighter there so the chips won't move around). Once Digital Angel is in place if you don't take the mark of the beast, you are in trouble. They will have a computer database that will know who is and who is not taking the mark. You don't take it, you won't be able to hide. They have the GPS global positioning satellite technology in them. They can track you at any time. Moniter your hearbeat and brainwaves.

A funny thing a couple years ago when I went into the site of Applied Digital Solutions they had on the site where they would inject it in your skin and how they could track criminals. They have since changed their web site to make it seem as though they are doing you a favor so that doggie can be found or children can be found at anytime. And because coming under scrutiny from some Christians they now are marketing it more in watches and pagers.

After hearing and following the UN I can say if your wife believes in her faith she is going to be a target just as the Christian that stand by the book will be. Unless you are willing to declare that Allah, Buddha and all other deities are equal with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob you will be a target.

The Muslims also lump the Christians and the Jews together. They call them people of the book. And they have a saying kill the Jew on Saturday and kill the Christians on Sunday.

Isreal and what is happening is very prophetic. I follow it closely. I go into the Israel newspapers almost on a daily basis. Israel is being set up hard. The media has distorted what is occurring of them horribly. I also have gone into some of the mid-eastern newspapers and seen the rederick. I cried the day they destroyed Joseph's tomb. I am very ticked off that it is now a mosque. And I am upset about the destruction that is occurring on the Temple Mount. No one is stopping it. It may just cave in soon. Then maybe the Temple will be rebuilt.
MCD

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Adam Walsh (father is of AMW fame) was killed by witches. His head was found in a coffee can in Hobe Sound area (Florida).

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Harry Potter books are not "fantasy" They are a scheme of the devil to indoctrinate children into the occult.

[MSCASEY]

That is a weak argument. I call my husband a football head sometimes and my son a nintendo head. If you take being called a potterhead as spewing hatred and venom then you must think that Harry Potter is something terrible, and that any association with such a thing is bad.

And I will leave your wife and kids out of it as I can see your love for them. But you can't see my love for MY FATHER. I wonder is yours as strong for THE FATHER?

When someone attacks MY FATHER in that manner I will take a stand, and I don't care if you or anyone else like it or not.

I guess that you must think when Jesus said those things he was spewing hatred and venom also.

Oh by the way get off of your high horse about me spewing hatred toward non-believers. I have many friends that are non-believers and my sister has recently just become a believer. So that one won't wash!!
MCD

[alpowolf]

Hense, Man did not know right from wrong until AFTER eating the apple

Thank you! This has bugged me for years. I've never heard a coherent rebuttal to this point. Perhaps someone here can do it.

[electron1]

Wow. Didnt know that. That sucks. HIs son was also killed, not by witches but in a different murder...He must have had a hard life.

[Ward Smythe]

You know what, I really don't have time for this. Believe whatever you want about yourself. Justify it anyway you think you can.

I'm not losing any sleep (or anything else) over this conversation.

[MSCASEY]

I love that Christian attitude. What love!
MCD

[MSCASEY]

I will pray for you!!
MCD

[conservonator]

What part of "Free Will" don't you under stand? Unless you’re a Calvinist.

Setting up God as a big meaney who smacks people around for stepping out of line because someone got the interpretation of the Bible wrong seems like a rather juvenile approach to Christian theology. Have you read the Bible? Possibly, but I doubt it. Did you miss the whole theme? God loves us, we screw up, and He still loves us. In fact He loves us so much He sent his only begotten Son to die for us. Did you miss the part about redemption? Did you miss the part about His greatest commandment?

If you want to want to worship at the church of I'm-the-final-arbiter-of-truth-be my guest. But once you understand that obedience born of reasoned faith is true freedom you might be able to read Scripture as it is meant to be read: not as a story of fear and oppression but as a path to eternal love and freedom.

You seem to have an irrational fear of faith in God. Why? Is it because you associate faith with Jimmy Schwagert type "Christians"? Is it because you think that the obedience of faith would put an end to your self-indulgent pleasures?

BTW if you had any grasp of Christian theology you would know that when God finished His creation it was perfect. The whole point of the tree of knowledge and the apple story serves to illustrate how man, aided by Satan caused the fall. It also serves to illustrate how disobedience causes problems. You’ll notice that man at the creation was pristine, sinless and enjoying a life of plenty. It is that act of disobedience that brought chaos and suffering into the world. The knowledge that was brought into the world was the knowledge of suffering and pain, but also, eventually the knowledge of redemption and salvation.

Why don’t you take some time to actually study theology with someone who actually understands it? Why don’t you heed your own admonition about “bad translations” and go to the source: Christ’s Church. (That would be the Catholic Church)

You could start Here and Here

[Calico Cat]

If you'll excuse the term, lexcorp...but I've got to say, "AMEN!" And thank you for the post.