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"So you think money is the root of all evil?"
'Atlas Shrugged' | 1957 | Ayn Rand

Posted on 11/27/2001 4:25:49 PM PST by Orion78

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To: He Rides A White Horse
Should we take it a step further?

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matt 6:24

21 posted on 11/27/2001 4:40:12 PM PST by kickme
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To: He Rides A White Horse
10-4

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim 6:10

22 posted on 11/27/2001 4:42:28 PM PST by kickme
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To: He Rides A White Horse
"The love of money which is the root of all evil"

Score, goal, game over.

It should be also noted though that money can also be a powerful facilitator of good, but in order to get the good, one must give away the money for it.

23 posted on 11/27/2001 4:43:00 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: kickme
Here's an idea........let's dig in here..........
24 posted on 11/27/2001 4:43:05 PM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Orion78
Some old threads that may be of interest:
The Trial of Hank Rearden .
Francisco's ``Money Speech'' .
25 posted on 11/27/2001 4:44:10 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: Elihu Burritt
See post #9
26 posted on 11/27/2001 4:45:11 PM PST by Orion78
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To: He Rides A White Horse
Thanks to all of you here who have corrected the record. Next we'll be seeing a thread on the lines of "God helps those who help themselves...."
27 posted on 11/27/2001 4:45:58 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: PatrickHenry
Thank you for the links, you have made typing such a lenghthy article worthwhile.
28 posted on 11/27/2001 4:48:27 PM PST by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Money is one of the many mediums for power. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Money by itself, it no more dangerous than a gun by itself. It is who has money and in what way that person can be use money is when it can be dangerous.

29 posted on 11/27/2001 4:50:15 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Orion78
"To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you"

Money has nothing to do with the best power in us!

30 posted on 11/27/2001 4:50:46 PM PST by kickme
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And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

Do you wish to know wether that day is comming? Watch the money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you seen that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you - when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - you know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

Who out there in la la land can see that we are right in the middle of the same exact situation as the one above???

31 posted on 11/27/2001 4:55:31 PM PST by Ferris
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To: kickme
Again, please do try to read it before you comment.

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money premits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss - the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery - that you must offer them values, not wounds - that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade - with reason, not force, as their final arbiter - it is the best product that wins, the best preformance, the man of best judgment and hightest ability - and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existance whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?"

32 posted on 11/27/2001 4:56:43 PM PST by Orion78
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To: Orion78
Thanks for all the work you went to. This,IMO,is the best passage in Atlas Shrugged,and one of the best that Rand ever wrote. I'm not a huge fan of the lady,but she outdid herself with this one.
33 posted on 11/27/2001 4:57:11 PM PST by sawsalimb
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To: Orion78; Elihu Burritt; He Rides A White Horse; anniegetyourgun
See post #9

So, whenever someone points out that it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil, you refer them to post #9?

And the words in post #9 are "proof" that the love of money is NOT the root of all evil, is that correct?

Hmmm....whom should I believe? The Apostle Paul or Ayn Rand? Hmmm....the Word of God, or some dead philosopher? Hmmm...

34 posted on 11/27/2001 4:58:27 PM PST by Skooz
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To: Orion78
"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickle, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money - and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know that are able to deserve it."

No, I didn't read it. She gets somewhat belabored and fuzzy most of the time. I don't, for instance, by the nonsense of the equation that a person who will sell his soul for a nickel is the person who hates money. In fact, it is usually the person who is willing to sell his soul for a nickel who most loudly proclaims his love of money. In fact, there is only so much actual work anyone person can do to earn money, and beyond that point, the money gained is not earned by work, but by other means.

For instance, I know for a fact my lawyer does not earn his 400 dollars an hour, neither does he hesitate to charge me two hours for every one he does actually sit on his butt and talk on the phone. By the same token, he regularly gives away his soul for free. That's why I hire him.

35 posted on 11/27/2001 5:00:14 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Orion78
Money is:

1) A medium of exchange. That is, it can be exchanged for other things of value. Money takes many forms. I can be paper of a certain size printed with a particular design, a large stone on Easter island, or a coin of a particular size and weight of a particular element. It doesn't matter as long as the buyer and seller agree on the value of the money.

2) A store of value. That is, if you trade something for money, the money acts a store for the value of that which it was traded for. If you trade sheep (or anything else) for money, theoretically, it could be traded back for the same number of sheep at a later time, all other things being equal.

3) A means of accounting. Money provides a fungible (equally divisible into very small units) means of keeping track of economic activity. Try entering half a sheep onto an expense report for entertaining clients.

THESE ARE THE ONLY PROPERTIES OF MONEY. Everything else is derived from these. Money is a THING. It is neither good, nor bad. It is a tool just as a screwdriver, a knife, or a gun is a tool. The only thing that may be considered good, or bad, is the use the tool is put to. In and of itself, it is no different from Playdoh or Playboy.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LoanPalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

36 posted on 11/27/2001 5:00:26 PM PST by LonePalm
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To: Skooz
the words in post #9 are "proof" that the love of money is NOT the root of all evil, is that correct?

No. See #35.

37 posted on 11/27/2001 5:01:56 PM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: Skooz
BUMPUS MAXIMUS - this was an outstanding moment in the story - the chablis and brea crowd deserved to get a big dose of objectivism.
38 posted on 11/27/2001 5:02:40 PM PST by corkoman
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To: Orion78
Great Post!! Thanks for the effort. Rand is great writer.
39 posted on 11/27/2001 5:03:15 PM PST by Kira-USA
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To: FourPeas
Isn't it amazing that misquoting the Bible is one of the favorite ways of discreditting it?

Well said. It makes me tired just to think of trying to correct such ignorance.

As Mark Twain said, "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes".
40 posted on 11/27/2001 5:05:08 PM PST by balrog666
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