Your reaction is rather common: in the previous few posts we carried out a discussion, wherein I pointed out that one should try to reach a reasoned rather than prejudiced conclusion. When you run out of arguments, you attack the messenger.
That is exactly what I tried to caution you against: a misplaced hatred leads to more hatred. Of your own. And, ultimately, of yourself.
If you studied history at all, you would know that the crusades were an answer to a 300 year blood bath carried out by Muslims. Well, if you studied history, you would know that at the time Jerusalem belonged to the infidel, and the Christian soldiers were sent to liberate it.
This was not even my point, however (and, since I have reiterated it, to pretend otherwise is disingenuous on your part). I also mentioned that before reaching Jerusalem the crusaders "liberated" Europe of the Europeans --- pagans and Jews, who were slaughtered en mass. Surely, this has nothing to do with the Bible, a holy book.
You want examples outside of the context of crusades? Once Moors concurred Spain, there was no slaughter there whatsoever. Most scholars actually point to this period as almost exemplary in peaceful coexistence of Muslims, Christians, Jews, and even pagans. No warfare whatsoever until XXI century, when Christians started to push Moors back. It took a few hundred years, by and the reconquest was complete after the fall of Granada in end of XXIV century to Isabella the Catholic. Like crusaders, she was also not content by expelling the “foreigners.” She has proceeded to liberate Spain from the Spaniards: in 1492, under the threat of death, she has expelled all Roma people (Gypsies) and then the Jews. The second voyage of Columbus was largely financed by the property ceased from those expelled. What was their sin? What "300 year blood bath" did the Roma and Jews inflict on Ferdinand and Isabella? The only sin of these Spaniards was that they were "infidels." They were most certainly Spaniards: Jews and Phoenicians arrived in Iberia long before Goths like Isabella. My point is rather simple. In the past, we too carried many actions that we would not undertake today. We slaughtered the “infidels,” and fought many fratricidal wars for the “purity” of Christianity. Even here, in the States, in the XX century, the Catholics were not “properly Christian.” It would be wrong to attribute out prejudice, mayhem and murder to the Bible would of course be wrong. Jesus has not ordered the crusades; the Church did.
We have learned from our mistakes, and for quite some time have not had any religious wars. The Arab Muslim world has not yet learned that lesson. I say Arab Muslim world, because people like you conveniently forget about our good and loyal friend --- Turkey -- a Muslim country that is a democracy for much longer than Christian Russia, for instance. Turks are Muslim, democratic, Western, and very loyal to the U.S. They read the same Koran.
Our war is not with the religion as expressed in their holy books: it is with the “Muslim church” that declared “crusades” on us. We should fight back and give them no mercy until we prevail completely.
But our war is with people, not religions. I am not worried that we will hit them too much: nothing is too much for them. My worry is that, once we step on the path of comparing religions themselves and the holy books, there main damage we will do to ourselves. We shall start with the Muslims and continue to argue who the “proper” Christian is. We have been there before, and shed much of needless blood of our brothers and neighbors.
Golda Meir, who was the prime minister of Israel when signing a peace accord with the president of Egypt Sadat, said to him the following: “I can forgive you for killing my children. But I cannot forgive you for making me kill yours.” Think about that. I very often do.
I wish you all a very Happy Thanksgiving.
A quick scan of Google produced the following:
In 1978, Sadat, Begin, and United States President Jimmy Carter held
discussions at meetings arranged by Carter. The discussions resulted in a major agreement that
included plans for Israel's withdrawal from all of the Sinai. The agreement also called for the
creation of a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. The peace treaty was signed in 1979, and
Israel completed its withdrawal from the Sinai in 1982. The treaty also called for
self-government for the Gaza Strip and the Israeli-occupied West Bank of Jordan. Sadat and
Begin shared the 1978 Nobel Peace Prize for their efforts to end the Arab-Israeli conflict.from http://school.discovery.com/homeworkhelp/worldbook/atozhistory/s/481330.html
One of the hardest days in the life of Golda Meir was October 6, 1973
- the beginning of the Yom Kippur War. It was a great tragedy for
Golda Meir. In June, 1974, Golda Meir retired from political life.
Quark, do you make it up as go along or is the world fantasy to you?
Praise His Holy Name
XeniaSt