Posted on 11/20/2001 9:38:50 AM PST by jgrubbs
THE PATRIOT ACT???
Do you know what Ive done that many of our congressmen and senators havent done? Ive read a summary of H.R. 3162. The long title is Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 The Congressional Research Service has given H.R. 3162 the short title of USA Patriot Bill.
I hope youve learned long ago not to pay any attention to the titles our wonderful legislators give to their legislation. Titles seldom have anything to do with the actual purposes of the bill. Take the Bank Secrecy Act for instance. The true purpose of this bill was to make sure that the federal government could keep an eye on your financial relationship with your bank. A more proper title would have been the Bank Anti-Secrecy Act.
OK
Back to the Patriot Act. It would seem that some members of congress have done what so many other groups and individuals have done. They have used the terrorist attacks on America as an excuse to pursue long-held goals that have nothing to do with terrorism.
Lets go back to that Bank Secrecy Act for a minute. Under that law you bank must file a report with the Imperial Federal Government every time you engage in a transaction with the bank involving more than $10,000 in cash. If you deposit $10,000 in cash the bank files a report. If you withdraw ten grand, the bank files a report. Are you told the bank is filing a report? No. Are you given a copy of the report? No. (I guess this is where the secrecy comes in.)
Well
Section 365 of the USA Patriot Bill has just expanded this reporting requirement. Now it applies to most businesses in addition to banks. Now, if you go to a business and spend more than $10,000 in cash that business has to report your name, address, social security number and other pertinent information to the feds. It doesnt matter whether you spend the money on one item, or a whole shopping cart full .. the federal government must be notified.
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with international terrorism. The terrorists who attacked the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon did not deal in large amounts of cash. They carried picture ID cards and used credit cards. They NEVER spent $10,000 in cash with any business. In short, they never engaged in any activity that would have to be reported under Section 365.
So --- whats the deal here? Why these new reporting requirements for all businesses? It has much more to do with the IRS than it does with terrorism. Our tax burden is so onerous in this country that many people prefer to deal in cash as much as they can. The IRS wants to catch these people, and has stepped forward to use our fear of terrorism to open the door. The original Bank Secrecy Act was based on money laundering by drug dealers. Drugs the excuse then, terrorism the excuse now. And all the while the goal is nothing less than to give the federal government more power to pry into the financial affairs of every American.
Remember --- this is the same government that tried to institute the Know your customer plan a few years back, and the same government that would like to have access to the computer networks that run ATMs and credit card authorization services.
As for the USA Patriot Bill? Few congressmen even read this bill. Many didnt even read the summary. In the House, under Republican leadership, debate wasnt permitted, nor were amendments.
Again ---- this is why I vote Libertarian.
You have not been paying attention. Rights are being taken away by Bush and Congress and without rights there is no Freedom. What rights you ask? The 4th amendment gone and signed away by a Republican President
In the Patriot Act has what is known as "Sneak and Peak". It takes away a persons right to be secure in their person, home, papers and effects. The government is allowed by law to come into your home, take what they want including papers and effects as long as is of no value (btw value is still not defined) and not even tell the person they have been there. The burden of proof being 'someone may know something about something' is not probable cause for a reasonable search or seizure.
"The ends justify the means(as long as it's legal). "
It is not legal if it is unconstitutional. There is a great deal of unconstitutional crap coming out of Washington right now and few care.
Bush and Congress have a free pass to do anything they want right now. Do you see what we get? Larger government, rights stripped and Bush usurping congress with a stroke of the pen.
I don't see Bush pushing a conservative agenda right now. I do see Bi partisanship for everything liberal but nothing conservative. Bush cant even get his judges in, for crying out loud.
With Bushes approval ratings and having the House why are the Republicans held HOSTAGE to the senate because 2 people (Jeffords and 1 dem) run this country right now?
"That's a big reason I finally sucked it up and joined the GOP. I think we to take over the party. It's the ONLY way we can win."
I at one time thought that too. I was a moderate DEMOCRAT at the time and many of my friends joined with me ...only problem was I was really a conservative and they were really liberals.
Those liberal Dems that joined are what we call RINO's. They are taking over the Republican party not conservatives....An example of this is Ann Wagner the current RNC co chair, former chairwoman of the Missouri State Republican Party during the last election when a dead man won a seat in the senate and voter fraud was known for a fact to be very rampant, Bush 1's state coordinator in 92, who helped redistrict MO after the last election and whose husband actively supports and contributes to Dick Gephardt and refuses to help Republican candidates while sending checks to Dems.
People like her will do everything they can to stop true conservatives candidates from running EVEN at the local level and do their best to squelch the conservative voice in the party.
Winning with the GOP only means Liberal-Lite and under Bush its not even lite any more. I have had it. I have plenty to offer to third party candidates and I would rather try there than the RNC/DNC any more.
DNA IN THE USA: PATRIOT ACT ALLOWS FORMATION OF DATABASE
The United States will soon begin construction on a giant database containing DNA codes of criminal offenders.
Buried in the USA Patriot Act -- signed into law by President Bush last month -- is a provision that allows for the government collection of a person's DNA for "qualifying Federal offenses, as determined by the Attorney General."
The DNA development has gone unreported in the nation's mainpress.
Section 503 of the Patriot Act now requires persons convicted of terrorism offenses and other crimes of violence to submit to DNA samples.
"The [DNA] database will be a powerful new tool for law enforcement and crime prevention," an administration official told the DRUDGE REPORT last week.
A 30-page Field Guidance of New Authorities issued by the Justice Department states the "collection of DNA samples from federal offenders" extends "to all federal offenders convicted of the types of offenses that are likely to be committed by terrorists or any crime of violence."
Specifics on the deployment of the database could not be obtained as this transmits.
Under prior law, the statutory provisions governing the collection of DNA samples from federal offenders were restrictive.
That said, there is a reason Ron Paul is not a libertarian anymore. He didn't win as a libertarian, but he did win as GOP. I want to see more Ron Pauls out there. I want to see more Butch Otters out there.
I'm staying the course though. Libertarian Party doesn't win. It hasn't won in the 25+ years it has been around. Can that change? Maybe. I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime though. It's a two party system, and the winner take all election setup makes it that way.
And if you don't want to join the GOP, then join the dems. I'd like to see more good dems out there. However, it's one or the other. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is. That's why I fight through the system.
Well, we have to get them back then, and unfortunatly, the libertarians probably aren't going to do it as they haven't yet. I agree personally, but I'm in to win, and maybe I don't win, but I know I have what it takes to really cause some problems for freedom grabbers. I can't do it in the LP. I can do it though in the GOP. Ron Paul has done it....in the GOP.
Maybe I'm lucky since I'm from a conservative area where there is only one RINO elected(Prosecutor). It all starts local.
Mark my words...in 5 years, the majority of people prosecuted under all these new laws will be US citizens trying to keep the IRS hands off their money.
Isn't the GOP's police state much nicer than the Dem's? I'm glad you think so.
Dude, I was wondering when someone besides me was going to clue into that. I thought I was being paranoid. These days, anything can happen. "After all -- this is WAR, you know."
They CAN't stop me from running. I don't know Missouri law, but they can't stop anyone in my state from running. All I need to do is cough up the $100, and I can run under any party, even dems.
I've blasted my reps on this terror bill, and I will be personally seeing my congressman himself soon over it at a party function. I'll bluntly going to ask him "Did you read the bill????"
I'm on the same side as you and the other ones I'm discussing with here.
I firmly believe we have two possible scenarios. The first I can't mention on the internet. It's from a semi-famous book about a man named Henry that takes place in Missouri.
That leaves the other one. ALL of us join the parties(dems too if that's the only party that wins), take control, run for office(starting at County commish, city council, township board, school board, sheriff(for cops), prosecutor(for lawyers)) or help like minded people run, and develop a base. Then work up and take the states over one by one by one, all the way to DC.
Out problem is that our people stayed home, wern't active enough, and don't have the same dedication as the freedom grabbers do. (all of us, including myself).
It's time to be as ruthless as the bad guys are. I'm sick of being nice.
It's time to be the leader that you are instead of a follower. Get out in front, instead of waiting for the bandwagon.
Aye.
Thats the rub.
If this bill stands as law I don't really think I can pull the lever for the Republican Party ever again. And this from a party loyalist who has voted "party line" Republican for over 30 years. This administration is not a conservative administration, nor is it a "smaller government" administration. It sickens me to see forum members here, who over the years have defended and promoted the conservation of our Constitution and BOR, now defend the usurpation of those contracts by our government because they are being usurped by a Republican President.
Or because they are full of fear.
Those who defend this action by our government are no better than the liberals who supported Clinton in his defecation on our Rule of Law. I suspect many conservative Republicans are silent because they are as shocked as I am by these turn of events.
A good leader picks his battles, and battles that can be won. We can win, but we must fight smart.
Good luck.
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