Don't peg me as a big government sheeple type. If you want to fight government intrusion in the lives of ordinary citizens, let's start with the gestapo known as family court that is badly in need of some sunshine, and federal judges like Jerry Buckmyer (sp?) of Dallas who can order a welfare housing project to be built in your neighborhood. But that's another thread.
All you stated here was what you think. No offense, but that really isn't relevant here - I'm more interested in the Constitution and the facts, as opposed to your personal experiences.
But if you don't have a good id system in place, how will you stop bad guys from just getting fake ids like the 9-11 guys and enjoy the mobility of citizens?
There is no such thing as a fraud-proof system. What leads you to believe determined terrorists won't obtain fake IDs of this new card just as easily as the current system? I'd venture to say the only people that will profit from this new scheme are the forgers.
So, anyone who wants freedom or privacy is a "criminal"?
I don't know you personally, but I'm willing to guess that if you caught someone peeping into your window while you're "gettin' busy" with your old lady you would kick his ass, or perhaps call the cops. What are you gonna do when you find out he is a cop?
I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but being an employee of the government does not in itself make someone a paragon of virtue.
Thanks for the personal biographical information (what this "reminds" you of, and a personal anecdote about your experience with caller ID). It's been fascinating.
However, the relationship between this information you have shared with us, and a rational argument in favor of a government-mandated National ID Card, is unclear.
These analogies you keep attempting to construct fail in the one area that is relevant: namely, a National ID Card would (if it means anything at all) be mandatory for people to carry, and failure to carry such a card would result in prosecution. If you want to keep throwing out analogies, you'd better start to make sure the analogies are appropriate in this respect.
No one is forced to get this or that credit card, or this or that telephone number. Under any realistic NID proposal, they would be forced to get a NID card after registering biometric info with the government.
It's just such a huge difference that it is bizarre that you can't see it.
I don't particularly like having my finger print on file with the DMV but since I'm not planning on being a fugitive from law or ex wife any time soon, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
(More fascinating biographical information...) I'm not losing sleep over it either, but I still disagree with it. Just because I'm not losing sleep over it doesn't make it right. And it certainly doesn't mean that one flawed policy (fingerprint collection) can rationally be used to justify another (government NID cards). It is simply not a valid argument. I suggest you stop trying to use it.
Re terrorists: NID card would seem a good first step at tracking people on visas which is sorely lacking right now.
What a disingenuous arguer you are. If it's only for tracking people on visas, then I don't need to carry one (since I am not here on a visa), so therefore the point is moot and there's nothing to discuss. Next.
But if you don't have a good id system in place, how will you stop bad guys from just getting fake ids like the 9-11 guys and enjoy the mobility of citizens?
Not all the 9-11 guys used faked IDs, you know. Some of them - maybe even the majority - used their actual identities.
One problem here is that many people seem to be convinced that what went wrong on 9/11 is that we didn't know who they were. If only we knew who they were, then somehow (miraculously) it would not have happened!!
But, this is an idiotic thing to think. You don't seriously believe this do you?
I'm not an advocate, yet, of NID cards. Just trying to grasp implications I haven't thought of because my type is so egocentric and all.
In that case, I'd say that there's one major "implication" that you need to grasp, and it gets us back to the main subject of this thread: The Constitution does not authorize the federal government to do this thing, and therefore, it should not be done. By default.
And, if you find yourself in favor of doing this thing, then you are, de facto, in favor of trashing the Constitution.
So, you can figure out where you stand on your own. At this point I'm pretty sick and tired of arguing with people who haven't fully thought it through, but still (for some reason) seem almost ready to jump on board the proposal, and slander anyone who isn't (i.e. the "if you're not a deadbeat dad you've got nothing to worry about" argument...). If you want to get a NID card because you'd find it so "convenient", then go ahead. Just think twice before trying to force me to do the same: you've got no right to do that, and I resent the neverending, solipsistic attempts by so many (even here on FR!) to try to goad me into thinking otherwise.
You will be when a cop demands your NID card and you don't have it.
Cop: "Show me your NID."
You: "Musta left it home."
Cop: "Then get in the cruiser - you're going downtown to the station until we verify you and fine you $200 for failure to produce NID card on demand."
You: "But I didn't do anything wrong! and I'm supposed to pick up my date for the movie in 20 minute!"
Cop: "TS. Get in the car. You're gonna miss more than the movie. The ID verification office doesn't open until 9AM Monday."
You: "WHAT?"
Cop: "Do I have to spell it out for you? You are to be detained at the county jail until we identify you, and that won't happen likely until Monday afternoon."
You: "But today's Friday!"
Cop: "Sucks to be you."
[ZZZZZAAAP!]
[shove]
[slam]
You: "AAAAAAAAAAA!!! Not fair!"
Ben, a NID basically means it's illegal for you to exist without possessing the card. Go see what happens in other countries with such IDs - it isn't pretty. Sure, people "get along OK with them"...but they certainly aren't free.
Just when you thought you might actually be innocent of something, then something comes along and bites you in the @ss. Case in point, (and certainly the only time a government agency has screwed up) I went to re-finance my home mortgage this month and the lenders decided to do a credit check on me. Imagine MY suprise when my credit check showed that my child support payments to the state of PA (where my ex-wife lives with my children) had been "formerly in collection but now caught up." After the typical runaround by a government agency, they stated that after they transferred my case from one agent to another, their database showed me in arrears for several months. I've NEVER missed a child support payment, and they very NEARLY f*cked me over because of their incompetency.
Do I want my name in another gov't sponsored database? NO, and if you think they aren't going to screw it up and potentially damage people's reputations, you are far too naive.