Posted on 11/09/2001 1:23:19 PM PST by TopQuark
Thans for the lesson in economics. Perhaps, you should equip yourself with a dictionary? Look it up:
wel·fare (wlfâr), n.
a. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
b. Prosperity.
If you insist on attacking Buchanan, at least attack what he said, not what you thought he said. If you read the quote from Buchanan in the thread, to which your statement refers, he did not suggest an intrinsic inability in some peoples, but an inability in our Society to as easily assimilate them. That idea has not been disproven, "time after time." Indeed the evidence of its validity is all around you. Open your eyes.
There are, of course, Irish, Italians and Jews, who fit in very well with the American mainstream, with which they are fully immersed. There are also Irish, Italian and Jewish neighborhoods in larger cities, where those who do not fit in so easily remain. If you wanted to establish an index, you would find that all groups do not assimilate with the same ease, as evidenced by the greater percentage of some groups that do not really assimilate at all.
And in the above, we are talking about Caucasian immigrants from a European background. The further you get from the basic backgrounds that helped define America, the greater the problem will be.
And you do not refute these problems by pointing to people at the top of the intelligence scale, who do very well indeed, and are able to use material success to protect themselves from some of the problems in adjustment that others have. (Private schools can adjust to the cultural idiosyncrasies, whether rooted in innate traits or social environment, a lot easier than can the public.) And to return to the point that Pat actually made, our ability to assimilate them; we don't have to worry if they live on large lots, and privately educate their children. But it is not the same with the larger groups now pouring in from the Third World.
It has become something of a fashion, lately, to bash Pat. And while, I have to distance myself from his views on World Trade, and from his opposition to the War to liberate Kuwait, I find this very unfortunate. Pat still has a lot to add on our side of the general ideological debate, even if he occasionally strays.
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
The Immigration and Naturalization Service (I&NS) reports 389,427 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border from Mexico into southern CA in fiscal year 1999.
These are apprehensions, NOT total entries. Therefore, the total entries into California each year may be 500% higher (2,373,975) using fiscal year 1998's 474,795 apprehensions as a 20% rate of apprehension, or the total entries into California each year may be 1000% higher (4,747,950) using the same 474,795 figure as a 10% rate of apprehension. These California total entry estimates are based on the I&NS's own official numbers. The true numbers may be even higher. The apprehension figures declined from 1998 to 1999 because of an accounting change, not because of a real decrease in illegal immigration. After 1998, if the same illegal alien is caught crossing the border 25 times in a fiscal year, this fact is now recorded as only one crossing attempt apprehension. Illegal immigration is actually increasing not declining, and in 2000 and 2001 is occurring in even higher numbers in Arizona.
I'm bumping this for later, more thorough, reading.
Ignore the flames of the perpetually irritable Buchanan types here, especially the ones about your member date. New members who bring something of substance to the table are always, IMHO, welcome.
My initial thought is that your essay represents an optimistic view of recent immigration, as opposed to the bottomless pessimism of the angry losers, personified by Pat B.
If we would resolve to return to the days of expected assimilation and jettison the failed blather of multi-culti suicide, I suspect you are right: third world immigrants would show the same ability to "Americanize" as the Irish and Italians did a century or more ago. Those that continued to refuse would stand out like sore thumbs.
Like I said, I'll read more closely later. Thanks.
I read his commentary this morning, and I did NOT get the impression that he was "racially profileing" immigrants at all.
Typical romanticized b.s. view of immigrants held by the immigration enthusiasts. Note the also typical put-down of native born Americans these jerks always feel compelled to offer in contrast.
So the author blames the ascendancy of multiculturalism for the fact that many immigrants have no loyalty toward this country---indeed, actually despise it. Well, its going to be a long, slow process to turn back the multiculturalism tide; it may not even be possible at this point. So now we're in a real jam. It will be poetic justice if a lot of immigration enthusiasts get blown up by a terrorist suitcase nuke.
These are just the right words: expected assimilation. And precisely because, as you put it, "those that continued to refuse would stand out like sore thumbs," they would not refuse for long. Together with putting a stop to illigal immigration, this would eliminate so many social problems.
Thanks for your comment and your welcome.
The stupid, weak, misled Americans argument doesn't support the proposition you want to advance. I would say, fine, close down the borders and let's educate these Americans and make something of them. In other words, that argument loses you more support than it could possibly win you. If we aren't as smart or as educated or as strong willed as we ought to be, the answer is not and should not be to simply replace us all with some new stock, but to remedy our deficiencies.
What I contrasted was voting behavior, saying that most immigrants I know do vote. (incidentally, this number is quite large, so my view is indeed "romanticized," as you put it; is your personal experience with immigration that extensive that it makes you views not "romanticized" but realistic?). Yes, I do think that something is wrong with the culture such as currently ours, in which only 49% of the electorate votes. Are not most of them native-born?
So the author blames the ascendancy of multiculturalism for the fact that many immigrants have no loyalty toward this country---indeed, actually despise it.
What else can I blame this on? This has never happened is this country before. Yes, we had ideologists, such as those enamored by Stalinist Soviet Union, that would commit anti-American acts. To love or hate ideas is easier than to love or hate people.
But never before did we have someone like Jane Fonda who wuld actually cheer a demise of an American pilot, that is, a real person and fellow American. Never before such someone like that could continue to be an idol to so many in this country. In the very least, she is acceptable to most of the public. How many people do you know who refuse to watch her movies? A few of your friends and mine?
Those Muslims who cheered when the World Trade Center was burning are easy to identify and point finger at. This cheer has been with us for a while, however, --- from Berkeley to Chomsky and his fellow travelers in Boston. Whereas before such un- or anti-American views and actions were on the fringe, they have become in recent years the mainstream. What does that have to do with immigrants? It has something to do with you and me. The answer is precisely in our pessimism, which you yourself express: "Well, its going to be a long, slow process to turn back the multiculturalism tide; it may not even be possible at this point. So now we're in a real jam." I beg to disagree: we should stop apologizing for our Western values but do so in a non-racist way. The now rampant anti-Americanism, if not removed altogether, will be pushed back to the fringes.
You also wite: It will be poetic justice if a lot of immigration enthusiasts get blown up by a terrorist suitcase nuke.
Given that you consider me an “immigration enthusiast” as well, I thank you. Had my wife not missed her train on September 11, which arrives under the WTC, she could have been among the "missing" in the WTC today. Your "poetic justice" would have been already served. As it is, you will have to wait for another attack on America.
But thanks for the thought and your good wishes. With fellow citizens like you, who needs Osama...?
Newsflash: Neither is Pat.
When one of them attacks you when you question Buchanan's views on race, ask them to point out ONE NON-WHITE ethnic group that he has championed for their 'assimilation into American culture.' I have never gotten an answer from them.
It is not racist to recognize this. It is plain, mere reality. To deny it is pathological, not the reverse. No less an authority than Thomas Sowell has written extensively on this. (If you don't know Thomas Sowell you need to go home, now, and educate yourself.)
This is not inconsistent with the spread of multi-culti-BS in the American elite. They go hand-in-hand. Both sides of the problem combine to make it a truly critical issue.
God help me I never thought I'd be lining up with Buchanan. Try Asian and Pacific Islanders, stupid. Many of them have assimilated better than some Europeans.
So it's not what your fellow countrymen do or what they stand for that concerns you --- it's the color of their skin? How nice and modern of you.
Hey, butthead, next time you "quote" me, try using the whole quote. Don't just pick parts of my sentence and piece them together as you see fit.
I am asking for someone to point out where Pat Buchanan has championed immigrants, other that white Europeans.
The Asians have assimilated very well. They work hard and have acheived a lot of success, for which I have a lot of admiration. If you are telling us that Buchanan HAS praised Asian immigrants, please give documentation. I have only heard him give high marks to white Europeans.
Is this topic too confusing for you?
I'm afraid assimilation of newcomers is going to be harder than in the past not just because of multiculturalism, but because of jet travel and cheap communications. Overwhelming immigration has and will have even more deleterious effects on our national unity, quality of life, and most especially, national security.
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