I failed to respond in a manner that would agree with your timetable. I choose not to respond until I'm ready to respond.
The following excerpt is from "Following Christ", by Stephen E. Robinson. It explains the LDS view of salvation vs. the mainstream Christian viewpoint, and in particular the LDS viewpoint on "enduring to the end" -- there is no salvation without doing that. You're free to disagree with our viewpoint all you want, but you are not free to claim that our position is not scriptural.
Faith and Works Among other things, I hope the first three chapters of this book have established at least the following:
1. As members of the Church in good faith who have entered the gospel covenant, we are already in the kingdom of God (though only conditionally at present) for as long as we choose to remain.
2. Enduring faithfully to the end does not just mean "coping" successfully with our problems or suffering affliction with stamina, although some have been called upon to do these things in order to endure. Certainly it has little to do with overcoming personal obstacles or achieving personal goals. Rather it means staying put in the kingdom by holding on to Christ and to his church without altering our commitment-- no matter what. Neither "enduring" nor "being faithful" means being perfect or living from our baptism until our death without sinning, for God has anticipated our weaknesses and has prepared the sacrament as a means of ongoing repentance and improvement within the covenant.
3. Some of the imperfections that so bedevil us in mortality are not of our own choosing, and we will not be held accountable for them. Imperfections of this type are built-in handicaps and limitations that simply come, because of the Fall, with mortality, and when we put off mortality we shall put off these handicaps as well.
Then Why Work?
Now if all the above are true, then why should I work anymore? After all, if we are already in the kingdom, then the purpose of doing good works cannot be to get into the kingdom! The works must fit in differently somehow, for we can't be working to earn something we already possess. But if the monumental task before me as a mortal member of the Church is not to work my way into the kingdom, then what is it? If I'm already in the kingdom, why am I working so hard? In fact, why should I work at all?
Some Christians have no good answers to those questions, since they do not possess the fullness of the gospel plan. They see salvation as a single event, in fact the only really significant event there is, and for them once you reach the kingdom the ball game is over and won. But for Latter-day Saints the answer is not that simple. We see the saving work of God in its entirety, not as a single event but as a process with a beginning and an end. The beginning of the process is coming to Christ through faith, repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost. In doing so, and at any point in the process thereafter, we are justified, sanctified, and "saved" on the condition of endurance (Matthew 10:22), that the process continue. Thus far, LDS theology is similar to that of other Christians. But Latter-day Saints know that the end of the process is far, far grander than even this. The ultimate goal, the purpose for all God's work, is not merely to save us from death and hell, as wonderful as that is in itself. The purpose behind it all is to make us what Christ is. (Is that monumental enough for you?) To be saved is to become sons and daughters of God through the atonement of Christ-- but the ultimate goal for sons and daughters is to grow up and be what their parents are. That is the dimension only Latter-day Saints understand! I'm not working now, after my conversion, to get into the kingdom; I'm not working to be "saved"; I'm working to become what he is, and to do what he does, and to have what he has.
One could say that coming to Christ is like getting on a train headed for a specific destination. If you want to go to that place, it is critically important to get on the train. And having gotten on the train, if we stay on it, we will inevitably arrive at the destination. But even so, merely getting on the train is not the point of the journey. Arriving at our destination is the point of the journey. Coming to Christ, being saved, begins our transformation. It gets us on the train, so to speak. But our ultimate object, our goal, is to become what Christ is. And that is why we work, not to save ourselves from hell-- Christ has already done that for us. In his great condescension, God the Son became everything we are and suffered everything we suffer in order to remove every obstacle and open every door (Revelation 3:8); now he invites us to become everything he is by treading the path he has cleared. So we work to close the distance, to become more like our Father (Mosiah 5:7), to actualize the individual perfection Christ has made possible. Those who do not desire to become entirely as Christ now is will find themselves increasingly uncomfortable with the process and will eventually get off the train, some nearer and some farther from their proper destination. But nobody gets thrown off. If we stay on board-- if we endure to the end-- we have God's promise that we shall reach our destination and become all that he is and receive all that he has (Romans 8:14-19, especially 17; John 16:15; Luke 12:44; D&C 84:38).
Unfortunately that is the answer other denominations cannot use, for in their theology we and Christ are usually different species of beings-- he is divine and we are human. In their view, it is blasphemous to suggest we can become what he is. They would insist there is no process, no long-term goal, and no point to religion beyond the single event of being saved from death and hell. Once saved, they are left theologically with nowhere to go, nothing to do, and no reason to do it. Their train is stationary-- no engine, no tracks, no journey. For them getting on the train is the complete destination. No wonder the one-time event of "being saved" becomes for them the focal point for all eternity and the LDS insistence on working toward a further goal irritates them so-- they deny the existence of any further goal beyond merely being saved from death and hell. They mistakenly suppose the Latter-day Saints are working to be saved, and, unfortunately, so do some of our own people. But Christ has already done that work; now we work to become as much like him as we desire to.
Only the Latter-day Saints understand that the purpose of God's grace is to take us all the way to himself and make us-- quite literally-- what he is. Now that is grace indeed! For Latter-day Saints the focal point of this life must be coming to Christ and beginning the process, but we also look forward to that greater moment in eternity when we shall finally be like him (1 John 3:2; 2 Corinthians 3:18). And toward that glorious day as faithful sons and daughters we consecrate ourselves in the everyday unfolding of our lives, that by our labors we might close the gap between us. When we use the term coming to Christ in describing conversion, it is a figure of speech that describes our intent and our desires. But the ultimate realization of coming to Christ is in actually closing the distance between us by becoming what he is through doing what he does.
If we focus too much attention on the beginning of life in Christ, on our initial conversion and justification by faith in Christ (that is, on being saved), it is possible to obscure the object, goal, and purpose of our new life, which is gradually, both now and in the eternity before us, to become in actual fact like Christ. Too much emphasis on beginning obscures the importance of finishing. As absolutely essential as it is to be converted, if we do not then begin to imitate Christ and move gradually toward him, we do not really honor him or truly worship him, for true worship is imitation.
Similarly, if we focus too much attention on the final accomplishment of our eternal goal, on becoming someday what our Father is, it is possible to undervalue or even overlook Christ's saving work, to glorify our own efforts instead and feel we are "saving ourselves" by working toward our goal. For that reason many miss the full power and blessing of having Christ in their lives right now. Thus, I suggest it is better to think of salvation as a process with a beginning in this life and an end in eternity. The beginning is mostly up to Christ; the end is mostly up to us. That is what Nephi tells us in 2 Nephi 31:19-20: We got into the strait and narrow path by unshaken faith in the word of Christ, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. Now we must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ and a perfect brightness of hope. If we "endure to the end" in this fashion, the Father promises, "Ye shall have eternal life." But we must always remember that while we are genuinely engaged in this process, while we labor between its beginning and its end, we are safe in his kingdom and in his loving arms-- saved in the classical sense (Alma 5:33, 34:16; Mormon 5:11, 6:17).
If you mean we escape the consequences of wrongfully employing our will, you are mistaken.
If you mean there is still some truth to the ancient gnostic/neo-platonist belief that our bodies can sin without affecting our souls, you are again mistaken.
Only when the results of the "imperfections" are beyond our control can we plead innocence. For example. If an apparently sober man is driving down the road and has a blackout resulting in an accident, he is not responsible. If, however he has had a history of blackouts or has been on a binge and has an accident, he becomes responsible because he had knowledge and did not act on it.
If I'm already in the kingdom, why am I working so hard? In fact, why should I work at all? Some Christians have no good answers to those questions, since they do not possess the fullness of the gospel plan. They see salvation as a single event, in fact the only really significant event there is, and for them once you reach the kingdom the ball game is over and won.
You may find some laymen with those opinions, but it is not the teaching of the church, nor has it ever been, that there is no connection between faith and works. Martin Luther had a problem with it and solved it by discarding the book of James. But his judgements in this area did not stand. The NT deals thoroughly with the faith/works question and is available for all to see. How can you say that LDS church has the answer? James has the answer. Hebrews has the answer. Jesus has the answer.
The Christian teaching on the nature of salvation is that it is both an event and a process. The event is that point at which you change your direction (ways) as is expressed in the Greek, metanoew. The process is the "setting apart" or "making holy" or "sanctification" of the Believer that lasts until death at which "time" we stand before God.
I'm not sure if you don't understand the Christian teaching on these two points or if you are misrepresenting them. I can, however, ask a couple of very pointed questions about Mormon mythology and doctrine.
You're free to disagree with our viewpoint all you want, but you are not free to claim that our position is not scriptural.
I don't claim your position is not scriptural. The Scriptures themselves proclaim loud and clear that the LDS position on many things is not only not scriptural, but heresy and even Blasphemy.
As members of the Church in good faith who have entered the gospel covenant, we are already in the kingdom of God (though only conditionally at present) for as long as we choose to remain.
The Scriptures prove you and the LDS wrong:
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, …
Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
Jesus answered, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
For whosoever is born of God overcometh the world.
Whosoever believes and continues believing has been born of God. The tense of the Greek word is perfectly clear. Whosoever believes has already been born of God. Furthermore, unless a man is literally born from above he cannot even see the Kingdom of God much less enter the Kingdom of God. And the Scripture also say that whosoever has been born of God will overcome the world.
As members of the Church in good faith who have entered the gospel covenant, we are already in the kingdom of God (though only conditionally at present) for as long as we choose to remain.
Behold the will of God:
No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day.
All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me, and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.
And this is the Father's will who hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the Last Day.
Election is determined by the Father. No man can come to Christ unless the Father draws him to the Son. All that the Father give to the Son will come to the Son. It is the express will of God the Father that the Son lose nothing that He has given the Son. It is the express will of God the Father that all of these saints be raised up at the Last Day.
Enduring faithfully to the end does not just mean "coping" successfully with our problems or suffering affliction with stamina, although some have been called upon to do these things in order to endure. Certainly it has little to do with overcoming personal obstacles or achieving personal goals. Rather it means staying put in the kingdom…
No, the scripture again proves you and the LDS wrong:
For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,…
Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you.
"We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."
Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing has happened to you;…
Suffering, persecution, and tribulation is not optional for God's elected saints. It is mandatory. It is for our spiritual health for the scriptures say that He will bring the one-third through the fire and refine them as silver and test them as gold. Furthermore, when a saint suffers, he reflects God's utmost desire. God is glorified in the suffering of a saint.
It has nothing to do with staying put in the kingdom. A saint cannot lose the Promise. It has everything to do with completing what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ by displaying what a superior satisfaction He is.
Some of the imperfections that so bedevil us in mortality are not of our own choosing, and we will not be held accountable for them. Imperfections of this type are built-in handicaps and limitations that simply come, because of the Fall, with mortality, and when we put off mortality we shall put off these handicaps as well.
Hear is a handicap that man cannot overcome:
***Romans 3: 10-12, 23 -- As it is written, There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
***Romans 7: 18 -- For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
***Romans 8: 5 - 8 -- For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
***1 Corinthians 2: 14 -- But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Was any of it true? The scriptures have utterly destroyed your and the LDS and this author's heretical position. However, there are a few choice comments that still need to be put to the Sword.
The ultimate goal, the purpose for all God's work, is not merely to save us from death and hell, as wonderful as that is in itself. The purpose behind it all is to make us what Christ is. The ultimate goal, the purpose for all God's work, is not merely to save us from death and hell, as wonderful as that is in itself. The purpose behind it all is to make us what Christ is. (Is that monumental enough for you?) To be saved is to become sons and daughters of God through the atonement of Christ-- but the ultimate goal for sons and daughters is to grow up and be what their parents are. That is the dimension only Latter-day Saints understand!
Of course, this statement is a cornerstone of LDS Blasphemy. I really don't have to refute it as your article has shown an utter and complete inability to understand what the Bible teaches.
I'm working to become what he is, and to do what he does, and to have what he has.
And yet, you can't even read and understand what the Bible plainly teaches.
Unfortunately that is the answer other denominations cannot use, for in their theology we and Christ are usually different species of beings-- he is divine and we are human. In their view, it is blasphemous to suggest we can become what he is.
The LDS church is not a denomination of Christianity. It is not in our view that this is Blasphemy, but God's view. One has to go no further than the Hebrew word for God which is Elohim. This means Existing One. God came from nothing. We are created. We cannot become what God is because of what we are. (Spend a day lost in that thought, if you dare.)
Only the Latter-day Saints understand that the purpose of God's grace is to take us all the way to himself and make us-- quite literally-- what he is.
And yet, the Scriptures refute such garbage:
"For my name's sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not like silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another."
Salvation is not a ground for boasting that we will be like the Most High. Another made such a claim and he will be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit. (The words of Satan) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High. (It is an occasion for self-abasement and joy in the glorious grace of God on our behalf - a grace which never depends on our distinctives but flows from God's overwhelming concern to magnify his own glory on behalf of his people. - John Piper)
I'm tiring of refuting this nonsense so I'll take a pause and simply let you refute the Bible if you can. It is a vain effort. You need to fall upon your face before the Living God and taste my Jesus.