Patriotism or Nationalism?

Sobran's ^ | 10/16/2001 | Joseph Sobran

[A.J.Armitage]

There's nothing wrong with two links. :-)

[Cap'n Crunch]

Hard to say, judging by incidents around the country, and some comments I've seen at FR, I believe one would stand a better chance mocking religion than mocking the nation and its military.

[IronJack]

That has been said before in a different language of course.

Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori?

[x]

There is some reality to the distinction, but it's easily manipulated by people to make the points they want to make. For such people, patriotism is whatever they think good, nationalism whatever is bad.

A lot of those who support foreign crusades for "Democracy" or "Freedom" aren't even nationalists, but internationalists. I doubt nationalism or patriotism even enters into their thinking except as something to be overcome. I suppose the neo-cons fit Sobran's or Orwell's label "nationalism", but even there, it's questionable whether nationalism is really at the center of their thinking. Perhaps it is, and defining "nationalism" pejoratively can convince people of that, but I have my doubts.

As Orwell, points out, a lot of the people he calls nationalists are those who derive their self esteem from belonging to some big unit. You don't have to be a nationalist to do that. In our system, some of the most ferocious nationalists in Orwell's or Sobran's sense aren't "nationalists" in Hamilton or Marshall's or Madison's or Monroe's sense -- promoters and supporters of the American federation or nation-state. Rather they choose some other group -- ethnic, religious, regional or political to exalt above all else.

The other side of the coin, though, is that if we vacate all big units like nations and cultures of value to concentrate on the naked individual, important things that go into the make up of the individual are lost. I think Sobran's "patriots" understand this. The problem is that some of people who would call themselves "patriots" in his scheme because they reject nationalism, really don't have this understanding. They define themselves as "patriots" rather than "nationalists" simply because they aren't nationalists. Sometimes it may be precisely the nationalist who brings home to people what nationality or homeland may mean. I can understand the desire to keep the fervent nationalist with his wounded pride or aggrandizing ambition at bay, but I wonder if people aren't also losing that quieter love of country. Or at least I was wondering until last month.

[ashrad]

Great article, thanks for the bump!