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Not to cuase an anthrax panic but........

Posted on 10/22/2001 10:40:41 AM PDT by newsperson999

ok. Before you flame me...lets discuss this..
2 postal workers are dead(and at different locations) 2 more confirmed with inhalation anthrax...maybe 9 more cases..it takes 8,000 or more spores to get sick from anthrax..
Well they didn't open the mail there they just sorted it, yet still somehow all that anthrax must have goten into the air...
The scary thing is this. How many spores got onto mail that went ot the general public?!!!
This may be much bigger then we are lead to believe. Or it may not. Please put your 2 cents in.


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To: newsperson999
I am maintaining a true safety zone around my household. Any mail from the IRS or Washington, D.C. shall be sent to file 13 immediately.
121 posted on 10/22/2001 4:54:05 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: not-an-ostrich
I don't hear anyone screaming in panic yet.

I do. Often. At least figuratively, it's hard to hear anyone over the internet.

Every time one more case pops up, there's a flurry of posts laden with capital letters and multiple exclamation points, implying that the new case was the turning point between a limited-results attack and a "we're all gonna catch the disease now!" scenario. Or at least that seems to be the emotion behind it.

Some more cases are inevitably going to pop up, even just from the original letter attack that we all know about now. It doesn't change anything, it's no excuse for a fresh batch of posts saying, "Ok, *NOW* maybe it's time to panic!!!"

It reminds me of the anti-gun crowd, who take every single instance of a shooting anywhere, splatter it loudly across a press release, and fire it off with rhetoric meant to give the impression, "Ok, *THAT's* the last straw, now y'all will listen to us and ban these evil guns!!!!"

I'll consider getting worried if the odds of an average American getting anthrax rises above the one-in-a-million level. I'll get nervous at the one-in-100,000 level. I'll start to panic at the one-in-1,000 level. But not until then.

That's not to say I'm not mad as hell at the perpetrators, and hope we find them and literally skin them alive. But that's a different thing entirely from losing sleep over fear of getting infected.

122 posted on 10/22/2001 4:55:31 PM PDT by Dan Day
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To: better_dead_then_red
I'm a little tired of the car accident comparison because its, well, silly.

It isn't silly at all. What we are talking about is the risk of you or anyone else not making it through the day. The risk of me being killed driving 20 miles around Atlanta on onw of the interstates is greater than it is for me catching and dying from an exposure to anthrax. The real value of an anthrax attack to the terrorists is all the media attention and hype. Setting off a couple of bombs would kill more people, but right now they are attacking our psych and our infrastructure. They want to shut down the airlines, restrict travel, and create fear.

Richard W.

123 posted on 10/22/2001 4:55:37 PM PDT by arete
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To: arete
Innocent people are being killed in the process of this small-scale bio attack/test run. Just because the numbers are small that doesn't mean we should ignore it. It's not just a matter of curable cutaneous anthrax. These people that just died didn't even know they had the inhaled form. If 5 people die today and 5 next week and 10 the week after that are you saying it doesn't matter because the numbers aren't in the thousands? Biowarfare is biowarfare.
124 posted on 10/22/2001 5:03:33 PM PDT by freeperfromnj
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To: Dan Day
I didn't see any capital letters and only 2 exclamation points. Maybe you are just jumping to conclusions on what the poster is "implying". This is war. I for one appreciate the posts, don't think anyone is implying panic, and also wonder how in the world the DC postal workers have inhalation anthrax and the Florida postal workers don't. Although I appreciate the concern about how I might panic, I can assure you I'm in the majority and won't. But I would like to discuss the events without being admonished by "big daddies".
125 posted on 10/22/2001 5:18:57 PM PDT by not-an-ostrich
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To: Clinton's a rapist
How To Lie With Statistics 101. In normal parlance, those 20,000 die of "old age."

I listed medical facts, ace.

For a handful of reasons the medical community has stopped short of recommending the flu vaccine for children. There was a study done by the University of Washington in Seattle that you might want to update yourself with. Maybe look into hospitalization for acute respiratory disease for children under 16 years and tell us how many perish each year. And as far as total number of people who are infected every 12 months in the states with influenza, probably triple the number who die.

126 posted on 10/22/2001 5:35:07 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: freeperfromnj
In this whole thing I'm reminded of Little boy and Fat man.

We had to drop two to let them know we had more than one. Of course, two is all we had. I wonder, really, what else these guys have up their sleeves.

Not to be callus, but like most of the MEN here, I don't consider an enemy that, so far at least, can't take out more than THREE of us in over a month as a real threat.

Sept. 11th may be their "Fat man" and a small arsenal of anthrax may be their "Little Boy." Time will tell, but I am living my life as though this risk LITERALLY does not exist. And I'm doing everything I can to shame the chicken littles into silence. I refuse to fear them simply because they slipped a small amount of this stuff into a couple of high profile areas and were very inefective at actually infecting anyone.

BTW, flu symptoms and dead in 6 hours? I wouldn't mind meeting the Lord that way.

127 posted on 10/22/2001 5:36:12 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection
More than 90% of those flu fatalities are over 65. In other words, granny got the flu and passed on. If she didn't get the flu, she would have passed on for some other reason before long. (Source: http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r2k0622d.htm).
128 posted on 10/22/2001 5:38:12 PM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
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To: Clinton's a rapist
Bada-bing. bada-bang!
129 posted on 10/22/2001 5:39:34 PM PDT by RobRoy
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To: djf
Last year how many people were killed when planes crashed into tall buildings?...this is a new year with a bunch of insane whackos who aren't afraid to die.
130 posted on 10/22/2001 5:40:15 PM PDT by teresat
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To: Ordie 1
Aye aye.
By defending our families we defend three thousand years of civilization.
No prisoners.
131 posted on 10/22/2001 5:56:57 PM PDT by ScholarWarrior
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To: Renatus
It could be many things, but hoof & mouth isn't big enough for these jokers.
132 posted on 10/22/2001 5:58:10 PM PDT by ScholarWarrior
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To: newsperson999
Experts: Unlikely that post office contamination tainted other mail with anthrax

By LAURAN NEERGAARD
The Associated Press
10/22/01 8:33 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- It's highly unlikely that any anthrax present in a Washington post office could have contaminated other letters awaiting delivery to people's homes, anthrax specialists said Monday.

"Your mail could not hold onto enough spores in the process of making it from the postal processing area to your home," explained bioterrorism expert Bruce Clements of St. Louis University. "I don't think people need to be concerned about receiving their mail at home."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention echoed that a risk to people at home is unlikely, noting it takes a high dose of anthrax bacteria to become ill.

"We can't say there's absolutely no risk," CDC spokesman Tom Skinner acknowledged. But, "based on what we know now the risk is probably small. ... Therefore our advice about handling suspected packages would still stand."

Health officials announced Monday that the bacteria somehow circulated through a Washington postal facility, sickening at least two workers with the deadly inhalation form of anthrax and possibly killing two others.

Two men in Florida, one of whom died, have also been diagnosed in the past 2½ weeks with inhalation anthrax, a disease not seen in this country since 1978. Six others, including two postal workers in New Jersey, have been infected with a highly treatable form of anthrax that is contracted through the skin.

The Washington postal facility processed the anthrax-containing letter received by Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle last week, but that letter was sealed. Doctors agree a person must inhale at least 8,000 spores deep into the lungs to contract inhalation anthrax.

How the postal workers could have breathed in that much remains a mystery that has bioterrorism experts like Clements puzzled -- as well as the CDC.

"We do not have a theory," said CDC Deputy Director David Fleming. Because only trace amounts of anthrax were found in post offices in New Jersey and Florida, the inhalation risk in Washington "was not something that we expected or even in retrospect could have anticipated," he said.

One possibility is that the postal system cleans its equipment with air hoses. "We blow out dust from our machines," said Postmaster General John E. Potter. "We are revising those procedures as we speak."

But once anthrax spores are in the air, studies have proved they settle to the ground fairly quickly, within hours.

U.S. Army studies cited in the Journal of the American Medical Association show once that settling occurs, it is very difficult for enough spores to be blown back into the air to sicken anyone, noted Dr. Luciana Borio of Johns Hopkins University's Center for Civilian Biodefense.

One such study found no significant health risk even if 1 million anthrax spores were deposited into 11 square feet and dust-blowing helicopters landed nearby.

If someone receives a letter containing anthrax-laced powder, "it is possible for a spore to escape an envelope," Surgeon General David Satcher said Monday, noting that the spores are microscopic. "We've had people infected without the envelope being opened."

But there have to be enough spores in that one spot for that to happen.

"I would not personally be worried about handling my mail," Borio stressed.

However, she noted that since bioterrorism-through-mail hasn't happened before, it can't be said with certainty that there's no risk. "Hopefully over the next week or so, nobody gets sick" outside of the post office and "that will be the best evidence," she said.

If you get a suspicious letter at home, put it down, wash your hands with hot water and soap and call the police, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson advised.

The U.S. Postal Service on Monday began mailing all households a postcard saying what should make you suspicious about a piece of mail and what to do with it.


133 posted on 10/22/2001 6:01:34 PM PDT by gumbo
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To: Clinton's a rapist
More than 90% of those flu fatalities are over 65. In other words, granny got the flu and passed on. If she didn't get the flu, she would have passed on for some other reason before long.

I don't know how long the age group has even been receiving the vaccine, it used to be 55 years. These people are not simply high risk in light diabetes, immunosuppression, severe forms of anemia and chronic diseases of the heart, lung or kidneys, asthma......., the are contagious!

Childrens epidemics ended in the early nineties, but they too were not simply vunerable to themselves yet extremely contagious. Check the deat ratios back then per 100 hospitals and read about the spread of the infection. And consider what it does to our society when we knock off the bottom 3-5% in terms of the future of this country, not to mention the families themselves. Read what I told you the first time instead of continuing to argue.

Anthrax doesn't pose a similar threat!

134 posted on 10/22/2001 6:03:10 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: DWSUWF
They clean the machines with compressed air, to blow out the accumulated debris, and Bingo! millions of anthrax spores in the air in a relatively confined space.

I vote this the scariest reply on this thread. The thought of blowing accumulated dust out of a machine in a crowed mail room - I'm surprised everyone in that room doesn't have anthrax.

135 posted on 10/22/2001 6:16:19 PM PDT by jonathonandjennifer
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To: newsperson999
The Hawwian bug looks like a bigger problem.
136 posted on 10/22/2001 6:21:17 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: jonathonandjennifer
"...I vote this the scariest reply on this thread. The thought of blowing accumulated dust out of a machine in a crowed mail room - I'm surprised everyone in that room doesn't have anthrax..."

The accidental Soviet release in the late 70's showed onset of symptoms as much as 43 days after the (known) day of exposure.

God help those poor devils, there may yet be many cases originating at that facility.

137 posted on 10/22/2001 6:24:17 PM PDT by DWSUWF
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To: shempy
that is unless you found out that your mail that you handled today went through the same sorting machine as the anthrax letter. gee now what do you do? put the mail in the trash and go wash your hands...who knows maybe its too late. wheres your armchair quaterbacking now? someone else said it here already more people will die of heart disease this year than died in the attacks on sept 11th. does that mean we shouldnt worry about other attacks? i.e. bombing etc. iowa is far away from any of these places doused with anthrax. i however am not. location tends to bring things a bit closer to home. one of the hijackers used to get hid hair cut in the same county that i live in. the first anthrax was deliviered within miles of the hijackers apartments. come to DC and hang out. we'd love the company you can handke my mail and let me know how it turns out.
138 posted on 10/22/2001 6:24:50 PM PDT by choppersrule
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To: shezza
how is MY mail affected?

When you got out to your mail box, grab your mail and turn your one shoulder blade to the wind. Then sort through your mail. Any unrecognized mail sit it down outside of the house. Examine it more carefully, open it outside of the house with your shoulderblade to the wind. This will allow any anthrax spores to blow away from you.

What we are talking about here is something the size of one to 5 microns. This is the size of a dust particle, the little tiny one that seem to float in the sunlight inside your house. It takes them 5 minutes to finally settle on the furniture. A 1/2 mph wind will blow these across the street in 10 seconds. A hair is 25 microns wide. Do you understand how small one micron is?.

139 posted on 10/22/2001 6:37:14 PM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: choppersrule
that is unless you found out that your mail that you handled today went through the same sorting machine as the anthrax letter. gee now what do you do?

Well, since worrying is an act that consumes energy while solving nothing, I certainly wouldn't waste my time on that. I don't know what to tell you. Are you going about your business, living your life? Or are you obsessing on the situation, fixated on the remote possibility that you may be among the .0001% of the population of DC that will be infected?

140 posted on 10/22/2001 6:47:48 PM PDT by shempy
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