Posted on 10/20/2001 11:10:24 AM PDT by liberallarry
Nationhood and Jerusalem
Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.
For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital.
Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
King David founded the city of Jerusalem.Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
Arab and Jewish Refugees
In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
Arab refugees were intentionally not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory.
Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.
The Arab - Israeli Conflict
The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation.
The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.
Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship.
Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs
Of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
But this kind of propaganda is crap. It's historically murky and in some cases flat out wrong. Here's some clarification and corrections:
They claim that Israel has been a nation since 1300 BC (they say BCE, I like BC :) ). It is true that it WAS a nation in 1300 BC but like lots of nations it was overrun, captured, etc. In the 1920's, the LEague of Nations directed Britain to establish a state of Israel in what was then Palestine. Two nations from one. This new nation was a democracy so the majority would rule. Prior to 1948, Jews in Palestine tried to increase their minority by running British blockades. Having critical mass, jews established the state of Israel in 1948 by expelling palestinians by force and defending a stip of land. They lost Jerusalem to Jordan and Jordan occupied what is now considered the Palestinian west bank including Jerusalem.
Between 1948 and 1967, Palestinians tried to establish ther state through terrorism of Jordan (then, Jordan was to Palestine what Israel is today). Jerusalem was considered the capital of the Palestine lands while Tel Aviv was the Israeli capital.
In 1967, Israel was attacked on three sides by Egypt, Jordan and Syria. During the attack, they took the Sinai from Egypt, and the Palestinian west bank from Jordan including Jerusalem..
There is no doubt that Jerusalem is a Muslim holy site (the Dome of the Rock has been there for hundreds of years.) It is definitely 3rd on their list, but it is 3rd, regardless of how many times it is mentioned.
Muslims do not pray with their backs to Jerusalem. They prey facing Mecca.
This "set of facts" complains that the Arabs didn't integrate their refugees, while Israel did. Last time I checked, PAlestinians aren't integrated into Israel. Israel has the same problem that Jordan did. Palestinians want their country back.
The reality is that Palestinians are going to have to accept that the west bank is all they are going to get. They can have Jerusalem as their capital (same as Israel). They will not get "right of return". It will probably take one or two generations for "right of return" to fade from memory. This is the key to peace.
No, the "palestinians" have never had a country, and the one that they were supposed to get was Jordan.
I'm well aware of what a Semite is, son of Ishmael.
I'm also aware of the semantic confusion of those like you who think that such pseudo-intellectual "neener-neeners" impress anyone.
The term anti-semitism was invented by a 19th century German Jew hater. It has been understood ever since to describe the hatred of Jews. So the term only applies to the progeny of Jacob, not of Ishmael and Esau, even though the latter two are also Semitic.
No, that’s an Arab, according to many Islamic Arabs. Jews are descendants of Isaac.
"neener-neeners"
What the heck is a “neener-needer”?? Is that Valley Girl talk? Like from Encino?
If you live in Sherman Oaks, I can understand why you are pro-Zionist. But why don’t you go on a pro-Zionist message board to talk about this stuff?
It has been understood ever since to describe the hatred of Jews
Oh nonsense! LOL! I agree with Anwar. You are using a narrow limited Zionist definition. Don’t call me names that you don’t understand the real definition of.
" In the 1920's, the LEague of Nations directed Britain to establish a state of Israel in what was then Palestine. Two nations from one. This new nation was a democracy so the majority would rule."
It may be murky and crappy but you're not the one to clarify and correct. Two nations from one...this nation was a democracy. That's clear?
Actually Britain was given a mandate in Palestine in 1922 by the League of Nations. Churchill promptly split off Jordan, 80% of the mandate, and made it off limits to Jews. By 1937 Britain, in the person of Lord Peel and his commission, concluded that there was no prospect of Jews and Arabs living side-by-side and recommended a partition. In 1946 the Anglo-American commission came to the same conclusion, saying that minority citizens of either group living in a state dominated by the other would not have adequate protection of their rights.
Since you didn't get this part right I don't suppose your further analysis is any better.
He's got ya, Fred. This is correct. I've read this several times in books about the origins of Hitler's Anti-Semitism. Prior to the 19th Century, there was no such term. It was something, like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that suddenly just appeared out of thin air.
The fact that Anwar Sadat said this is interesting, but really just shows his lack of understanding of how this particular term arose. It's just like today, when I talk to people here in Washington about the Confederacy. Everyone seems to think that the typical stars and bars "battle flag" WAS the flag of the Confederate States of America. This isn't true. It shows a lack of understanding of the facts.
Just check out the Websters.com definition of the word:
an·ti-Sem·ite (nt-smt, nt-) n.
One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.
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anti-Se·mitic (-s-mtk) adj.
"Jews are descendants of Isaac."
Incorrect. Esau was a son of Isaac. His descendents are not Jews. Jews are the heritage of Jacob.
"What the heck is a “neener-needer”??"
It's an American schoolyard colloquialism, which accurately describes the level of your debating acumen.
"You are using a narrow limited Zionist definition. Don’t call me names that you don’t understand the real definition of.
You are the one ignoring both the semantic origins of the word, "anti-semitism", and its meaning in commmon parlance.
(Which I take it you think is part of some Zionist media conspiracy. Allah akhbar! The infidels have even despoiled the dictionary!)
And the sole purpose of your having done so is so that you won't have to address the holes in your argument.
Tell me, do you understand the definition of the word "obtuse?"
"anti-semite"
"first used"
Below is a cut and paste out of one of the referenced pages:
Anti-Semitism is a term applied only to the JEWS. It was first used in 1879 by the German agitator, Wilhelm Marr and it applied to the anti-Jewish campaigns in europe. "ANTI-SEMITISM" became a general useage term denoting hostitility towards the Jews throughout history. And, anti-Jewish hostility in antiquity occurred almost exclusively in countries which became part of the Roman Empire.
I have to go out, otherwise I'd do some searches on Marr. But this is correct. The term appeared out of thin air. I do know that by the time Hitler was a teenager it was the fashionable term applied to those that hated the poor Jews. Hitler was born in 1889.
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