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To: #3Fan
{ Amos 2:6-7 } The Lord says, "The people of Israel have sinned again and again, and I will not forget it. I will not leave them unpunished any more. For they have perverted justice by accepting bribes and sold into slavery the poor who can't repay their debts; they trade them for a pair of shoes. They trample the poor in the dust and kick aside the meek.

Like the Dems do with smokers and Joe Sixpack.

See my comments above re: alcohol and tobacco taxes. You can't compare raising taxes on luxury items with selling an entire people into slavery.

At their religious feasts they lounge in clothing stolen from their debtors, and in my own Temple they offer sacrifices of wine they purchased with stolen money."

Like the Dems with union worker check confiscation.

Again, give me evidence that you can back up to prove this.

{Amos 5:12 } "For many and great are your sins. I know them all so well. You are the enemies of everything good; you take bribes; you refuse justice to the poor." What's this? People in public office allowing themselves to be persuaded by people with money to deny justice to those with less money and prestige? Clinton was king of this. No justice for Juanita Broadrick or the other two (at least) he raped.

Clinton sex Clinton sex Clinton sex, blah blah blah. So what do you think of the GOP proposal to keep individuals from suing their HMO's? There's a denial of justice if I ever saw one.

Most unions today force the workers to join or they lose their jobs, that's slavery. We'll see who the more righteous is.

How can it be slavery when the members of unions elect leaders and have a voice in what the union does? Without unions, you would have real slavery at the hands of the employers, just like back in the Industrial Revolution.

If you have evidence of worker oppression, you need to point it out. This author has been making all kinds of accusations but no specifics.

Read Eric Schlosser's Fast-Food Nation for one example. Here's a blurb about the book by Eric Alterman:

Eric Schlosser's Fast-Food Nation is a frightening and disturbing update of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Spend a few hours with Schlosser and you'll become more intimately acquainted with your ground beef than you ever wanted to be. Consider the people who get the meat into your waiting fingers. The injury rate among meatpackers is the highest of any US occupation. Every year about one-third of all slaughterhouse workers--roughly 43,000 men and women--suffer an injury or an illness that requires first aid on the job. Given the inevitable exchange of blood and other bodily fluids in which these injuries result, their oppression is your health hazard. The same goes for the burger-flippers behind the grill. Fast-food employees are the largest group of low-paid workers in the United States today, earning on average $5.74 an hour. One-quarter of the workers in the restaurant industry are estimated to earn the minimum wage--a higher proportion than in any other US industry. (No wonder the National Restaurant Association is perhaps this nation's most vociferous opponent of living-wage laws.) Again, worker oppression results in consumer health peril. Reading Schlosser, we hear stories of teenage workers serving meat after dropping it on the floor, picking their noses into the food, smoking on the job and watching cockroaches and rats feed and defecate on unprepared foods.

Most atheists are Democrats.

Oh? Where's your reference for this?

There are more wealthy Democrats than Republicans. They're called limosuine liberals.

No, there are more wealthy Republicans than Democrats, b/c it's in their self-interest to vote for the people who will support them fiscally, e.g. tax cuts and reduction of workers' laws.

Not true, as in my example above, it's clear that some are poor bacause of laziness. Here's more:

Some, but not all. Rather than making sweeping cuts in welfare that hurt those who are truly in need, fix the loopholes that cause the sporadic incidents of people taking advantage of the welfare system.

Instead of putting words in the prophets mouth, why not just be truthful?

There's nothing untruthful about speculation, especially when the author admits it's only speculation.

That's why the rich earn their keep. It's much easier to be poor.

What an ignorant thing to say. Do you honestly think that money is the measure of a man's worth? Or that it's the measure of how hard he works for that money?

I wouldn't have voted for him. This aricle is nothing but false accusations. Notice that in allthese instances, God qualified his statements by saying those rich that have done wicked things to obtain their riches or tend to them. There's no sin in receiving God's blessings to the point of being rich.

There's no sin to being rich, but there's no sin to being poor either. So there shouldn't be any opposition to laws that attempt to give the rich and the poor equal opportunities in our society.

What are you talking about? If anyone restricts speech, it's those fine folks in the Bush administration and their ridiculous "first-amendment zones."

Never heard of them.

An article on First Amendment Zones

The ACLU absolutely will not allow free speech on government property. People must say exactly what the ACLU wants them to say at football games etc. And it's usually atheistic philosophy.

I've heard of people not being able to pray publicly at football games, but there's no law against doing it privately. That's not the same as "being forced to say" anything. In fact, public prayers are the only way people would be "forced to say" anything. Just don't push your religion on anyone else...that's the spirit of the law.

It has nothing to do with women's rights, it's the liberal agenda they're after. When Clinton sexually harassed his subordinates, you saw the true agenda, the women's rights groups attacked Clinton's victims.

Here you go again, trying to transpose a Democratic leader's desire to chase skirts into some kind of overreaching liberal policy. Does this mean Bob Packwood's sexual assualt actions are also indictive of the GOP's conservative agenda?

[Atheism] is most certainly is a religion. It's the belief that nature and evolution alone control our destiny. That's religion. Hitler and Stalin killed millions for it.

Religion is a belief in a diety (or dieties) that has control over our lives. Atheism means you believe there is no diety. There is no atheistic prayer, no atheistic churches, and none of the other accoutrements of religion. Those that fight against school prayer are not fighting for atheism; they are fighting against the forced spoon-feeding of Christianity or any other religion to our kids.

(To be continued...)

228 posted on 10/22/2001 10:06:32 AM PDT by dwbh
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To: dwbh
See my comments above re: alcohol and tobacco taxes. You can't compare raising taxes on luxury items with selling an entire people into slavery.

Alcohol is not a luxury item. It's been part of the diet for thousands of years. That's the way you have to make it moral huh, consider anything you want to tax as being a luxury item. I guess everything but bread and water would be a luxury item. And as far as slavery goes, the Dems are famous for slavery, that's what check confiscation is, slavery. And you've just admitted how far you're willing to go to tax everything you can.

Again, give me evidence that you can back up to prove this.

Like I said, I was a union worker. They threatened to burn down my house when I resisted their whims.

Clinton sex Clinton sex Clinton sex, blah blah blah.

Yes because of 30 years of liberal self-righteousness went out the window when liberals let Clinton get away with murder, rape, and thievery from the poor.

So what do you think of the GOP proposal to keep individuals from suing their HMO's? There's a denial of justice if I ever saw one.

Don't know, don't care. It's a free market, if you don't like your HMO, move on.

How can it be slavery when the members of unions elect leaders and have a voice in what the union does?

The majority rules the minority. That's Democracy, not Constitutional Republicanism. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. The founding fathers rejected Democracy for Constitutional Republicanism.

Without unions, you would have real slavery at the hands of the employers, just like back in the Industrial Revolution.

Unions were necessary when the economy wasn't so diversified. The unions have went from being a necessary protector of workers to a money machine for thugs, Democrats, liberals, and the mafia. They've outlived their usefulness. Why do you think the mafia got involved with unions? It's certainly not because they're concerned with the anglo-saxon workers rights.

Read Eric Schlosser's Fast-Food Nation for one example. Here's a blurb about the book by Eric Alterman: Eric Schlosser's Fast-Food Nation is a frightening and disturbing update of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Spend a few hours with Schlosser and you'll become more intimately acquainted with your ground beef than you ever wanted to be. Consider the people who get the meat into your waiting fingers. The injury rate among meatpackers is the highest of any US occupation. Every year about one-third of all slaughterhouse workers--roughly 43,000 men and women--suffer an injury or an illness that requires first aid on the job. Given the inevitable exchange of blood and other bodily fluids in which these injuries result, their oppression is your health hazard. The same goes for the burger-flippers behind the grill. Fast-food employees are the largest group of low-paid workers in the United States today, earning on average $5.74 an hour. One-quarter of the workers in the restaurant industry are estimated to earn the minimum wage--a higher proportion than in any other US industry. (No wonder the National Restaurant Association is perhaps this nation's most vociferous opponent of living-wage laws.) Again, worker oppression results in consumer health peril. Reading Schlosser, we hear stories of teenage workers serving meat after dropping it on the floor, picking their noses into the food, smoking on the job and watching cockroaches and rats feed and defecate on unprepared foods.

I asked you for evidence of wrongdoing by employers, and you give me wrongdoing by employees. I guess you haven't got anything.

Oh? Where's your reference for this?

You. You and your website have been bitching about Christians. You must think that there are more Christians in the Republican party.

No, there are more wealthy Republicans than Democrats, b/c it's in their self-interest to vote for the people who will support them fiscally, e.g. tax cuts and reduction of workers' laws.

No, it's in the Republicans best interest to support those that strive for freedom, which means lower taxes and the lowest regulation necessary.

Some, but not all. Rather than making sweeping cuts in welfare that hurt those who are truly in need, fix the loopholes that cause the sporadic incidents of people taking advantage of the welfare system.

If you believe that why did Democrats howl about the poor welfare recipients that had to go out and get jobs?

There's nothing untruthful about speculation, especially when the author admits it's only speculation.

But he put words in the prophets mouths. Watch out for lightning strikes.

What an ignorant thing to say.

No it's not. I work around lower middle class and upper middle class. I can tell you that the lower middle class work just enough to have enough money to go to the bar and party the night away 3 or 4 times a week. There's nothing wrong with that, they're happy and they don't worry about things that richer people worry about.

Do you honestly think that money is the measure of a man's worth? Or that it's the measure of how hard he works for that money?

Where did you get that. I only made the point that people who choose to stay poor don't worry about things that richer people worry about.

There's no sin to being rich, but there's no sin to being poor either.

I didn't say there was. This was a ten-page article about the rich being evil. I defend the fact that sometimes God's blessings make people monetarily rich. Look at Solomon.

So there shouldn't be any opposition to laws that attempt to give the rich and the poor equal opportunities in our society.

Reasonable equal opportunity, yes, wealth redistribution from producers to parasites, no.

An article on First Amendment Zones

Diggin deep again, huh? I'm not going through that article and debate that point by point too. If you've got something to say from it, say it.

I've heard of people not being able to pray publicly at football games, but there's no law against doing it privately.

THAT'S CENSORSHIP OF FREE SPEECH!!! You liberals think it's OK to restict a conservative Christian's speech but I think you would howl if we tried to tell you you can't preach the religion of pure atheistic evolution on government property. (By the way, I believe in some evolution, I believe God used evolution to create the world in an orderly fashion. I believe in divine intervention though to work His plan)

That's not the same as "being forced to say" anything. In fact, public prayers are the only way people would be "forced to say" anything. Just don't push your religion on anyone else...that's the spirit of the law.

Boloney. The spirit of the law is clear in the founding father's documents. They mentioned the Creator. The ACLU doesn't allow the mention of the Creator.

Here you go again, trying to transpose a Democratic leader's desire to chase skirts into some kind of overreaching liberal policy.

It's proof that the Democrats are all blow and no show. When confronted with the situation of irreputable leaders, Republicans take care of business (Nixon, Packwood, Livingston, etc.), Democrats will hold on to their high places even at the expense of the poor and the country. It sums up 30 years of lying self-righteous hypocritism.

Does this mean Bob Packwood's sexual assualt actions are also indictive of the GOP's conservative agenda?

He resigned. Dems take the poor and the country down with them.

Religion is a belief in a diety (or dieties) that has control over our lives.

Exactly. Liberals believe mother Earth and evolution control our destiny.

Atheism means you believe there is no diety.

Atheist worship the earth.

There is no atheistic prayer, no atheistic churches, and none of the other accoutrements of religion.

What are all these Earth days then. Atheist are some of the most religious people there are.

Those that fight against school prayer are not fighting for atheism; they are fighting against the forced spoon-feeding of Christianity or any other religion to our kids.

Meanwhile they force-feed the religion of earth worship 8 hours a day. God controls our destiny, not the earth. The current form of the earth will be destroyed by God and all knees will bow. There will be no doubt who rules, God or Mother Earth.

244 posted on 10/22/2001 4:10:41 PM PDT by #3Fan
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