"There were no innocent people in those skyscrapers" - Chilling view from the other side

THE ULTIMATUM: Give the Arab countries one year to dispose of their garbage, or we drop "the incinerator" on the whole region and burn it down to the ground. Nothing left but glowing ashes.

I would agree if we said one month instead of one year and started the clock on September 11th, 2001.

Nukem

Satan's army.

You have been registered to post on this forum for only a matter of hours. Your post #14 is truly wierd.

The concept of war and honor is gone, the attack of the September 11 was the most dastardly in the history of mankind. As the depth of the act sets in, I must pray that mankind will look kindly to these terrorist. There fate has been determine along with the rest of the muslim world. God be with them.

These guys do seem to be proving Anne Coulter was right!

I believe the "former" FDNY chaplain of Muslim descent was the pilot of the airliner that hit WTC#1.

Where did that come from? Any basis for this view?

Tell me more...

Armor is an inefficient solution exposing large numbers of our troops to unnecessary risk. I would prefer more efficient (i.e. more dead Terrorists for the cost) lower risk solutions, such as those used to abruptly change Japanese attitudes towards continuing the Pacific War.

Someone in another post pointed out that the first terrorism against the United States was perpetrated by the Indians (excuse me, native Americans), first encouraged by the French, then by the British. Someone should point out to the Arab world just how we solved that terrorist problem over a couple of centuries, especially when it was difficult to tell "good Indians" from "bad Indians" [q.v. Gen. Sheridan's famous statement at Ft. Union in 1869: The only 'good Indians' I ever saw were dead.]

As the words to the patriotic song at the beginning of WWII went, in part: We've done it before, and we can do it again!

Which once again leads us to an inescapable conclusion: the only way we will ever destroy terrorism (sometimes called "asymmetric" warfare) is to actively replace these cultures that espouse violent opposition to us. This means "change of government ceremonies" imposed at the muzzles of an M1A1 tanks and seeking out and finding these "teachers" among them that get young people filled with this kind of aberrant value system and eliminating them. Then we have to get democracy and prosperity for them, just like we did for Germany and Japan after we readjusted their attitudes.

I agree with your assessment, but I see it as an impossible task. Once you remove one leader another will take his place...just like they would here at home.

This is a war between Christianity and Islam for the struggle to exist, and it will be waged until the world in thrown so far back into the Dark Ages that neither side is able to wage it anymore.

IMHO, the Crusades never ended and they will shake the world next...

Bin Laden said killing innocent people is wrong, but he did NOT say that the people in the Trade Center were innocent.

Ten years later, Afghanistan beckoned another generation of Muslim youth -- this time not to fight Soviet soldiers but to help establish "pure" Islamic states worldwide.

Welcome to modern Islam.

It is not that they wish to be left alone.

It is only complete and global domination that will 'appease' them.

Think: Nazis without the snappy uniforms.

"When I heard the news, I was happy. I thought, Muslims are becoming strong,"

Do not be deceived. This is a spiritual war.

So aren't you comforted by the knowledge that the vast majority are peaceful? I know I sure am. not.

The thing that I'm most concerned about is the "most Muslims are peace-loving teddy bears" opinion rampant in Ricki Lake Nation.

If you want to see some chilling daily "news" each day, check out the online version of the Tehran Times from Iran, www.tehrantimes.com, as it seems to me their propoganda machine is revving up those fanatic Muslims. Here's today's front page "story":

Use of Biological Weapons Against Afghans Possible

TEHRAN TIMES INTL. DESK

TEHRAN Sources in Germany say that the United States is purchasing the components to develop biological and chemical weapons, raising fears of the usage of bio-chemical weapons against Afghans in the current supposed U.S. war against terrorism.

On Tuesday, German Interior Minister Otto Schilly was quoted as saying that Germany exported the weapons' raw materials to the United States. The estimated value of the components was 77 million marks.

In related news, German Defense Minister Rudolf Scharping has stated that Germany's biological and chemical weapon production potential is rapidly increasing.

Fear of attacks in Germany has sparked off a run on gas masks in some areas, a military supply shop manager said Tuesday.

Marianne Ohrem of the NATO shop for German Army supplies in the western city of Duesseldorf said that wholesalers have sold out their gas mask inventories due to dramatically increased demand.

"Since the attacks, we have sold nearly 200 gas masks in Duesseldorf alone," she said, adding that sales had previously averaged two per year.

Duesseldorf has a population of 580,000.

Ohrem said that customers cited fear of chemical or biological attacks when buying the protective gear.

But she acknowledged that she could not guarantee that the masks would offer protection from all dangerous substances.

Meanwhile, Australia's leading authority on terrorism said Tuesday that the anthrax attacks now spreading terror through the United States are unlikely to have had anything to do with Osama bin Laden.

Clive Williams, a specialist in terrorism at the Australian National University (ANU) in Canberra, said the evidence points to right-wing U.S. militia.

"I think the first instances of it, the ones involving media, were more likely to have been caused by extremist militia in the U.S. who have shown an interest in anthrax in the past and tried to acquire it," he told AFP.

"The subsequent instances were basically copy-cat episodes by mentally unbalanced people, I believe."

Williams, widely acknowledged as Australia's leading authority on the subject, is preparing a graduate course in terrorism for the ABU's Strategic and Defense Studies Center.

Speaking 24 hours after Australia was plunged into chaos and panic because of a series of hoaxes involving "suspicious" packages of white powder, he said Australia, in reality, is in little danger from bio-terrorist attack.

However, up to 16 buildings were evacuated on Monday because of hoax packages and authorities reported dozens more were received on Tuesday.

He said that the U.S. attacks have involved the use of a form of anthrax readily available to scientists and researchers.

A photo editor died on October 5 from respiratory anthrax at American Media Inc. in Boca Raton, Florida.

Three other people who have since developed the disease were employees of media companies, triggering suspicions of a bio-terrorist campaign.

"There were no innocent people in those skyscrapers" - Chilling view from the other side

In the West, we have the underlying, unspoken, and often unconscious concept that all men everywhere equally stand in relationship to some kind of moral law. Now, we take into consideration the fact that a person's background or education or mental capability or age may make judgment necessary in certain cases to determine just how severely those individuals are to be judged, something akin to a handicap, but nevertheless, we have an idea that there is some general, basic, set of moral expectations that can be lived up to by any human being anywhere. That is, all humans are members of a single group and capable, at least, of bringing themselves into conformity to that basic moral law. Any particular nation's laws overlap this set of expectations to varying extents and are often taken by individuals living in these societies of being equivalent to them. Individuals who are unable in and of themselves of bringing themselves into conformity with these expectations (moral or legal) may be classed as mentally unfit. Those who are developmentally not yet likely to be able to do this are classed as children. Those who just plain refuse to do this are moral reprobates, sinners, or criminals (depending on which set of expectations are focused on). Those who are new to a particular region and are just plain unaware of them and make an infraction but otherwise would not have had they known are often classified as foreigners or barbarians or worldly (again depending on the focus).

Those of us who belong to this Western tradition believe to some degree that merely being born into a group--a family, a language group, a nation, even a religion--does not automatically make one guilty of things done by other members of that group.

This, however, is not how some groups throughout the world think and many more have thought throughout most of history. In their way of thinking, they are the human beings, they are "the people" (as their own language's name for themselves often indicates), they are the true people of Allah, and everyone else, just because they weren't born into their group, is not. Because of this, none of these other people are to be treated in any way other than what will facilitate the goals of one's own group, the truly human group. This type of thinking appears to be the default setting of the human heart. It is the core of tribalism. It is not restricted to the technologically unsophisticated because the same type of thinking was the foundation of Communism (forging the new soviet man) and Naziism (the true Aryan was only worthy of life and full membership in society). The two major religions that are absent this type of thinking are Judaism and Christianity (though you could make an argument that classical Buddhism is similar). Judaism still maintains that they are the chosen people of G-d (and I think that is true for specific historical and religious reasons), but they have not, for thousands of years, assumed this to mean that they have carte blanche to take out other groups with impunity (regardless of the propaganda of the Palestinians which is just plain factually, historically inaccurate). Even in the earliest documents of Judaism the people are told by G-d himself to treat strangers in their society well because they were once strangers in a strange land. And if those people desired to live among them, they were allowed to with no more restrictions than those laid on the people themselves. And if those people desired to convert, they could do so. Christianity made the distinction that morally everyone stood before G-d in exactly the same position, Jew and Gentile alike, Greek, barbarian, male, female. In fact, it is this tradition that underlies our "modern" concept of the family of man.

Islam, however, does not embody this concept. Radical Islamic groups certainly do not. There is just The Group. All outside the group is against the group. All outside the group is in and of itself an enemy of the group. Innocent is defined as being part of The Group. Simply to NOT be a member of The Group is to be guilty of everything that the enemy of The Group is trying to do against it. Simply being outside The Group is to be its enemy and worthy of whatever The Group deems necessary to advance its own goals. Combine this thinking with the conviction that everything they are doing they are doing for and with the approval of the supreme moral power and you've got something that represents extreme danger for everyone else in the world.

propoganda machine = propaganda machine

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Joshua who felt compassion and allowed some to live after God told him to destroy them all and not to allow any to live?...and now we have to deal with the results....maybe its time to correct that. Might be time to clean house(Talaban house that is)...destroy them all, their families, pile all their belongings in a pile, and torch it.......

Oh, gee, let's give the scumbags credit for integrity, then, whatever their views.

All outside the group is against the group. All outside the group is in and of itself an enemy of the group. Innocent is defined as being part of The Group. Simply to NOT be a member of The Group is to be guilty of everything that the enemy of The Group is trying to do against it. Simply being outside The Group is to be its enemy and worthy of whatever The Group deems necessary to advance its own goals. Combine this thinking with the conviction that everything they are doing they are doing for and with the approval of the supreme moral power and you've got something that represents extreme danger for everyone else in the world.

This is probably partly why a psychologist I knew about 20 years ago said that most Middle Eastern Muslim males could be classified as clinically insane (or course, getting circumcized as an older child (it varies with the Muslim group) and the culture and mentality built up around that probably has a lot to do with that, too). Funny that you don't hear circumcision foes hitting the Muslims for ritual mutilation but only the Jews. Consider, what would the difference be in psychological impact of circumcision on the 8th day (Jews) versus circumcision in childhood (Muslims), the premium being put on submitting to it (Islam=surrender, submission) without showing a sign of pain or suffering, being a celebration that children can hear stories about and grow up anticipating?

Too bad we can't go into our universities and do the same thing.