This 'religion' thing

The Washington Times ^ | Balint Vazsonyi

[VinnyTex]

First things first. Let us get the myth about "separation of church and state" out of the way. A thousand dollars in cash to anyone who can find such a provision in the U.S. Constitution.

Two thousand dollars to anyone who can establish a rational connection between "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and the American Civil Liberties Union's assertion that writing "God bless America" on a high school marquee is unconstitutional.

[AppyPappy]

which is of course why public schools are in and of themselves immoral.

In theory, everything works.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

That's a bogus argument. Slavery was in existence during the time of the constitution too... so does that mean we should bring it back?

You should note that it required the 13th and 14th amendments to abolish slavery.  Where are the constitutional amendments that abolish state-sponsored religions?  It is rather obvious that the founding fathers were aiming at the federation and not the individual states when they forbade "official" religions.

The only way that it can be argued that my argument is bogus is by using the "living document" theory rather than the fundamentalist view.  I personally take to the fundamentalist viewpoint, since I feel that the document should be changed by the people, not by the whim of an unelected oligarchy.

[independentmind]

It is relatively recent that countries with a dominant Roman Catholic population countenance others.

It is also relatively recent that countries with a dominant Protestant population tolerate Roman Catholics. Protestants, are to a large extent, responsible for the privatization of religion of which the author disapproves.

[Nebullis]

If the public schools were the only arena of public sphere your shift of the argument to compulsary funding of public education (whatever merit it has on its own) might be less irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[Uriel1975]

To: Uriel1975 -- You are, of course, free to send your child to any school. 96 posted on 10/16/01 7:23 AM Pacific by SiouxsieQ

No offense, but..... THINK!!

This is NOT just a First Amendment issue. Even if you could wave a magic "cultural-diversity" wand and instantly solve all the First Amendment freedom issues, the Public School system is still an abomination against the Fifth Amendment's property clause.

I am not principally arguing about the "freedom" to send kids to Christian schools, but about the justice (or rather, injustice) of publicly-funded theft. It's about time that American Christians woke up to that fact. In all honesty, it's long past time.

Modern State public schools are viewed as moral poison by Calvinist Covenantalists. How on earth do you rationalize stealing parent's money, and then offering to poison their children, as any kind of "public service"?

What part of "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation" don't you understand??

[ksen]

I think 90% of the disagreement over this subject would disappear, if we simply eliminated the inherently socialistic and divisive construct otherwise known as public schools.

I sure wish more conservatives would join with libertarians in attemtping to get rid of these collectivist propaganda factories. If they did, all of these arguments about creationism versus evolution, prayer vs not, homosexual normalization, etc... would simply disappear.

Parents (and not state) should decide what their children are taught, and parents (not state theft) should pay for it.

OWK, I don't agree with your views on religion, but Brother, I'm with you on the proper role of government.

-ksen

[AppyPappy]

Forget it. Just pretend it didn't happen.

[OWK]

If the public schools were the only arena of public sphere your shift of the argument to compulsary funding of public education (whatever merit it has on its own) might be less irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Inasmuch as the posted article (dealing with public schools) WAS the subject at hand, I'd suggest you try to pay better attention.

[jwalsh07]

Perhaps you can tell me what religion was established with the words "God Bless America"?

[Uriel1975]

If the public schools were the only arena of public sphere your shift of the argument to compulsary funding of public education (whatever merit it has on its own) might be less irrelevant to the topic at hand.

No "shift". If you'll notice, that's what the posted article concerns -- the public schools.

If you wish for your comments to be considered germane, Neb, you might try reading the article in question.

Just a thought.

[Polybius]

We have even forbidden ourselves to ask: If a person prefers to live by the customs of Mexico, Kashmir, Arabia or China, why not stay there? Instead, we are terrified that our ways may offend newcomers who do things differently. Have we gone stark raving mad?

Here, the author is off base.

What matters is acceptance of American core values as expressed by our Constitution. Hatred for America and religious Holy War, for example, are outside of American core values.

"Customs" is a different kettle of fish. It is as difficult to find common "customs" in the USA as it is difficult to get Texans and Carolinians to agree on what the correct way to Bar-B-Que is.

It should also be pointed out that embracing "the customs" of your local community is not necessarily a good thing. As a Cuban American living in a very Liberal town on the Left Coast, I am bringing up my kids according to the tradinitional Cuban customs I was raised with instead of according to the local customs.

What that means is that my kids do not see Mom and Dad smoking pot at home, Mom does not have hairy legs and armpits, the kids are taught traditional conservative values that a Southerner would be quite at home with but that the local Left Coasters find rather strange and that my daughter goes to her private school wearing a plaid skirt and a Navy blue sweater rather than going to public school school dressed as an 11 year-old Brittany Spears-wannabe.

[Nebullis]

Inasmuch as the posted article (dealing with public schools) WAS the subject at hand, I'd suggest you try to pay better attention.

The examples used were indeed public school examples. But, if you read this article as a thesis in dealing with the public schools, you are interpreting it to your political advantage and not to the author's intent. You might want to reread the article to better understand it.

[HeadOn]

From YOUR home page:

No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him. -Thomas Jefferson

Our problem is that this is a "heads or tails" issue. If we pray, we infringe on YOUR rights. If we don't, you infringe upon OURS.

[BibChr]

To say nothing of the fact that, at the time of ratification, states (states, not Congress) in fact did have, not just vaguely religious, but specifically Christian affiliations.

Dan

[OWK]

Our problem is that this is a "heads or tails" issue. If we pray, we infringe on YOUR rights. If we don't, you infringe upon OURS.

No one here has suggested that your prayers infringe on our rights.

The issue is one of compulsory funding (i.e. government funding) of the advancement of your faith.