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To: JohnnyM
This made me believe that you don't believe in a church. If i'm wrong please clarify.

Sir, you already mischaracterized my words, accused me of mishandling the word of God which to me is a sore blow indeed. Then you ask? I am beside myself. The very attacks I abhor I am now partaking in. I am here to seek the truth and will not lower myself to this level of discourse. When I post a scripture I expect it to be pondered in thoughtful manner by thoughtful people. You are free to interpret them as you see fit but don't assume how I would interpret the same. To your own self be true.

3,602 posted on 10/29/2001 7:20:28 AM PST by vmatt
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To: hopefulpilgrim
Re 3239

Then he says that Purgatory is a "work" of the person in Purgatory. I again ask for proof of what he claims is Catholic teaching...

I understand what he means...at least I think I do. He can correct me if I'm wrong. When he calls purgatory a "work," he means as opposed to *grace*. The "purity" which is supposed to result from purgatory is NOT a gift of God (grace), but is something the person achieves by suffering. It is a work as opposed to being something that God simply *gives* you.

You have this exactly backwards, as is usual. The cleansing in Purgatory is entirely due to grace. The suffering which we may feel is a result of the cleansing, not the cause of it. This is how far away we are, in your attempt to make us Pelagian, you see our doctrine backwards.

It is not God saying "We will make them suffer, this will have the effect of purifying them."

Rather it is "We will purify them, it may make them suffer, but it is for the good."

SD

3,607 posted on 10/29/2001 7:27:20 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: vmatt
dude, why are you so defensive? I have not attacked you. I am trying to see where you are coming from. First, you say you want people to explain where you may be wrong in interpretation, and then when they do you get all defensive. I ask you to clarify a statement that made me think you were saying something that didn't jive with the passage you quoted. I am not attacking you, so don't get so defensive. I was asking for clarification. How am I, or anyone for that matter, supposed to discuss these issues with you if we don't know where you stand on said issue??

JM
3,611 posted on 10/29/2001 7:33:15 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: vmatt
To your own self be true.

From the gospel according to Polonius?

3,612 posted on 10/29/2001 7:33:21 AM PST by malakhi
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