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To: dignan3
Witness Havoc's inane objections to the term Theotokos(i.e. "How can Mary be God's mother? That would mean that she existed before God."). He is arguing against something which is not is not a part of, and is indeed directly contrary to, the definition of Theotokos as taught by the Council of Ephesus.

The only thing you misrepresent as well as scripture is the words of anyone that argues against your beliefs. Mary is the mother of the physical form of Jesus. I have not argued that she is not the mother of Jesus. I have made the statement that she is not, as the implication of your statements would infer, the creator of God. And I stated that whether you intend to state her as the creator of God or not. I'm not letting such a blasphemous inferrance hang out there in the wind for others to abuse. If you have a problem with that, tough!

The Lutherans say one thing, the Calvinists another, the Anglicans another, the Baptists another, the non-denominational denominationalists yet another, etc... Will you say that they are all wrong and you are right, as Havoc does? That is what they each say about you.

Which even I have dealt with quite plainly and clearly. Let me say it again, lest you think you are getting by with something. Protestants in general are guilty of the same vile garbage Catholicism, Budhism, Satanism, Taoism, etc are guilty of - following philosophy. The difference is that Catholicism and much of Protestantism dip their philosophy in Christianity like one would dip a cookie in Milk and then want to call the Cookie "Milk". Catholics group together around the cookie and damn and kick the milk for anything their worth, lest the milk saturate and crumble the cookie. Ya'll defend your philosophies at any cost. You dip only as it pleases you to do so and heaven and earth tremble should you ever, oh to think it, drink the milk and set the cookie aside - woe. You can't have it both ways. You can drink the milk or eat the cookie. The milk may make your stomache a little sour; but, it's good for you. The cookie is sweet but it'll rot your teath and poison your body. Woe. But you hold on to your bags of cookies and won't drink the untainted milk. You have to pour liquer or chocolate in the milk before you can stomach it because after all the cookies, you're lactose intolerant!! But you do have purgatory pills to keep the stomache fooled.

3,216 posted on 10/26/2001 4:35:03 PM PDT by Havoc
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To: Havoc
Catholics group together around the cookie and damn and kick the milk for anything their worth, lest the milk saturate and crumble the cookie. Ya'll defend your philosophies at any cost. You dip only as it pleases you to do so and heaven and earth tremble should you ever, oh to think it, drink the milk and set the cookie aside - woe. You can't have it both ways. You can drink the milk or eat the cookie. The milk may make your stomache a little sour; but, it's good for you. The cookie is sweet but it'll rot your teath and poison your body. Woe. But you hold on to your bags of cookies and won't drink the untainted milk. You have to pour liquer or chocolate in the milk before you can stomach it because after all the cookies, you're lactose intolerant!! But you do have purgatory pills to keep the stomache fooled. >>>>> Do you do acid often?
3,259 posted on 10/27/2001 10:33:15 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Havoc
Mary is the mother of the physical form of Jesus. I have not argued that she is not the mother of Jesus. I have made the statement that she is not, as the implication of your statements would infer, the creator of God. And I stated that whether you intend to state her as the creator of God or not. . I'm not letting such a blasphemous inferrance hang out there in the wind for others to abuse.

Here is the definition of Theotokos or "Mother of God" as it was dogmatically defined by the Council of Ephesus:

"This expression, however, "the Word was made flesh," can mean nothing else but that he partook of flesh and blood like to us; he made our body his own, and came forth man from a woman, not casting off his existence as God, or his generation of God the Father, but even in taking to himself flesh remaining what he was. This the declaration of the correct faith proclaims everywhere. This was the sentiment of the holy Fathers; therefore they ventured to call the holy Virgin, the Mother of God, not as if the nature of the Word or his divinity had its beginning from the holy Virgin, but because of her was born that holy body with a rational soul, to which the Word being personally united is said to be born according to the flesh." (Second Epistle of Cyril to Nestorius - Approved by the Council of Ephesus)

"1. If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (qeotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, 'The Word was made flesh']: let him be anathema." (Twelve Anathemas Proposed by Cyril and accepted by the Council of Ephesus)

This is what Catholics mean when we say that Mary was the "Mother of God". No more, no less. What part of the above definition do you have objections with, if any?

Pray for John Paul II

3,358 posted on 10/28/2001 9:57:07 AM PST by dignan3
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