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To: SoothingDave
Because, leaving aside the baggage of helping each other out and indulgences, etc, we have agreed that there is a Purification process that occurs after death. This is the state of existence we Catholics call Purgatory.

Why is it I've never seen that parallel drawn in Catholic Literature?

Why is it that the change is instantaneous in the Bible and glorifying while Catholicism paints purgatory as the next best thing to hell. Before you deny the latter, you'd do well to read some Catholic literature in which numerous Catholics throughout time, including the likes of Cyril, are quoted as saying they'd rather spend time in Hell than in purgatory. The Catholic purgatory is a spiritual pennitentiary. The Bible paints no such picture - nor does it even mention it. Yet, Catholicism has defined it to the point of telling such intricacies as how long one might expect, on average, to spend in purgatory. Being changed in an instant does not equate to years and years in prison being held captive for 'lesser sins.' To God there are no 'lesser sins' All sin is equal - one is just unforgiveable. No comparison between being changed in an instant and purgatory. And considering the Catholic church has never claimed this equivalance, I would suggest you are grasping at straws in order to make it seem feasable. It's a Crock, Dave... a lie of the devil. Say it with me, "Purgatory is a Lie of the Devil." See, I knew that you could..

3,135 posted on 10/26/2001 12:00:17 PM PDT by Havoc
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To: Havoc
we have agreed that there is a Purification process that occurs after death. This is the state of existence we Catholics call Purgatory.

Why is it I've never seen that parallel drawn in Catholic Literature?

In your post 295 you quoted:

Like 'heaven' or 'hell', the word purgatory refers to a place and a state. Catholics believe that purgatory exists to purge those souls who are not yet pure enough for heaven and its vision of God but who have not died in a state of serious (mortal) sin. ...In a word, purgatory exits to make saints who will be ready for the purity of God's presence. If one does not succeed in becomming a saint on earth but yet escapes eternal hell, he is purified in purgatory.."

This pretty clearly states that Purgatory is a state of purification after death. Well, the "death" part is assumed. I don't know why you've never seen this.

Why is it that the change is instantaneous in the Bible and glorifying while Catholicism paints purgatory as the next best thing to hell.

Why is this "instantaneous" thing considered to be a state of suffering? Because we will be aware of the change happening. Our selves, literally, will be ripped apart as the good is separated from the bad. We will become painfully aware of the limitations of our souls, how much impurity remains after a lifetime of trying to be pure. It will be anguish to consider how much God wants for us and how often we had rejected it. It may be "instantaneous" (whatever time means), but it will be experienced.

It will also be a state of both sorrow for our shortcomings and joy for our near arrival in the Perfect Bliss of Heaven.

Before you deny the latter, you'd do well to read some Catholic literature in which numerous Catholics throughout time, including the likes of Cyril, are quoted as saying they'd rather spend time in Hell than in purgatory.

I'm sure you took that our of context or did not understand the rhetorical point they wer making. It probably had something to do with the acute realization of our unworthiness. In hell the soul can feel, much like in prison today, that he got "ripped off" that God isn't being "fair." In Purgatory, we will be made clean, each piece of dirt on our souls will be removed and examined. The ultimate goal of perfection is sweet, but the actual process of being cleaned may be even more painful than simply being damned.

The Catholic purgatory is a spiritual pennitentiary. The Bible paints no such picture - nor does it even mention it. Yet, Catholicism has defined it to the point of telling such intricacies as how long one might expect, on average, to spend in purgatory.

No it hasn't. Penances were often given to be served in durations of time. And indulgences were granted in durations of time. But Purgatory was never taught to be in durations of time. Surely to explain the process of cleansing we may need to speak of "time" spent in Purgatory, but that is only a fault in the language. God isn't really "above" us in Heaven but we talk that way cause it's the only way we have.

SD

3,141 posted on 10/26/2001 12:21:55 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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