Replies

For me, when I think or observe someone consumed, or focused, on their own personal assurance of eternal salvation, I observe one wrapped up in self and selfish reward – a near certain way to diminish in our conscious relationship with the divine. That is what has often turned me away from "believe and receive" preaching. However, you've given an example of a flip side, and for that I'm very grateful - for your experience and for your relating it to me.

You're welcome, D-fendr. BUT, I don't think I understand what you are saying about assurance of salvation. Would you reword that first paragraph above? I'm interested in what you're saying, especially how it relates to "believe and receive" preaching. Thanks.

Believe and receive preaching, in carricture, is the appeal to believe in order to receive salvation. It is a simple punishment and reward appeal. An animal responds to the same approach. So, to me, it is among the lesser communication tools for spiritual growth - which I think seeks after something beyond self. (Though again, it is important to me that I don't assume what is certain to me is necessarily the case in another's growth.)

My reply to JH above elaborates a bit more on the point I was discussing; concerning your request "Would you reword that first paragraph above?" I hope you'll accept that the best reply I can think of is a short pair by Rumi:

When one of us gets lost, is not here, He must be inside us.
There's no place like that anywhere in the world.

And we know one thing taught so many ways by Jesus: whatever it is you wish for, give it away to another. If you wish to receive love, give love to another; if you want to be forgiven, forgive another… Again and again, we are guided away from selfish gain and from thought of self to concern for another - and to another paradox: to keep it, we must give it away. Perhaps it is that way with realizing salvation as well.

but then, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

thanks for your courtesy in reply.