The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[malakhi]

Look into a good independent Bible Baptist Church you will find the truth there.

Is there any difference between an independent Bible Baptist Church, and a nondenominational church which calls itself a 'Bible Church'?

[SoothingDave]

Re 4062

which is better, to accept a gift which changes your life, which makes you actually innocent, actually pure, actually worthy to stand in God's Presence. Or to be content with being acquitted, being in Heaven with flaws and blemishes, but "let off" because of Christ. I will choose to have my soul actually cleaned, thank you.

From my reading of the scriptures, I would say that neither option is plausible, and you omitted the real option, which is to enter God's presence clothed in the righteousness of Christ---His righteousness is my righteousness because we have been united by baptizm into death...and resurrection.

And you are righteous now? Pure now? No, we already established that. I wish you folks would answer my questions. When will you be perfect, pure, clean? And on top of it your answer is just a re-statement of my ssecond option. What is the diffference, except semantics, between what I said being "acquitted, but let off because of Christ" and your "clothed in the righteousness of Christ." in either case we are talking about an external imputation instead of an internalized actual change.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Re 4063

CAUTION: You are about to enter a no-truth zone.

Very clever. I almost didn't notice that you are calling me a liar. I guess when you can't argue, throw mud.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Re 4064

When will it occur to at least one of you folks that Purgatory IS the application of Christ's blood to our souls?

Unbelievable. His blood was applied to my soul when He drew me to Him and I repented. His blood is applied to me continually. Back up your outlandish claims with scripture. Prove it, Dave.

Dude, I don't disagree with anything you are saying. All I am saying is that the goal of this "application" of Christ's Blood is to purify me. And our God will finish the job after death if it is not finished beforehand.

SD

[al_c]

Um ... did you address this to the right person?

Hey ... how 'bout them Steelers? What a total shutdown of the Titan offense ... impressive.

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ALL: Good morning, everybody! Looks like we're done discussing everyone's whereabouts and are now back on topic. Okay ...

Tuesday, October 30, 2001

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Romans 8:18-25 Psalms 126:1-2, 2-3, 4-5, 6 Luke 13:18-21 Mary was raised to the dignity of Mother of God rather for sinners than for the just, since Jesus Christ declares that he came to call not the just, but sinners.   -- St. Anselm

From wau.org ...

"I hope ... "

So often in everyday conversation, people use the word "hope" in a way that conveys almost the exact opposite of what it means. There's an air of fatalism and surrender about it. The message beneath their words is something like, "In my heart, I know this most likely won't happen, but I'll keep on hoping--just in case."

How important it is not to let this subtle attitude undermine our understanding of Christian hope. For those who believe and are baptized into Christ, hope is a virtue and a divine gift of the Holy Spirit. Christian hope means looking forward to what God has promised with the assurance and confidence that he will accomplish it. It means believing God even when every circumstance tells us not to. As Paul said, "We hope for what we do not see" (Romans 18:25). Sustained by hope, we can trust that God will deliver on his promises at just the right time, though not always at the time and in the way we expect.

We have received the Holy Spirit in our hearts. We are children of God and members of his kingdom. We are a new creation in Christ. But all of this is like a seed planted in us that must grow and mature. This, then, is the basis for our hope: that this seed of new life will never die away. It is imperishable. Times of worry, difficulty, and even great testing will surely come. But through it all, we can hope in God, who is fully committed to us and has promised never to leave or forsake us. As we trust in him, God will work in us to form us and to fulfill his promises.

Are you going through a difficult time? Is temptation on the rise? Is there someone in your life who seems just plain unlovable? Don't give up! Remember the seed of faith! From such small beginnings--even from small acts of faith--great things can come. God will have his kingdom, and he will triumph in the hearts of all who have placed themselves in his hands. Never give up hoping!

"Father, I believe. Help my unbelief. Father, I trust in you. Help my lack of trust. Father, I hope in all your promises. Help me to wait patiently for the fulfillment of what I do not yet see."

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Have a great day, everyone.

Oh ... almost forgot ...

Pray for BigMack!

;o)

[SoothingDave]

Re 4066

Are you telling me you subscribe to the "God doesn't want us to ask about certain things" school of thought?

Huh?

Becky is fond of the theory that there are certain things, certain areas of thought that God does not want us to enquire after. Even if the things are true, God wishes us to remain ignorant of these truths because exploring them can be dangerous to our souls. (This despite the wisecracks that Catholics like to feel warm and fuzzy in their Church.) She re-iterated this as I quote her in post 3691:

From a man's prespective I guess those remarks are true, but I don't believe that is the way God wants us to view her or he would have used those terms about her in his word

You concurred:

Thank you for this, Becky. Yours truly, Hopefulpilgrim

I am sorry that I thought you were agreeing with her. That's what it looked like to me. Notice how she opposes what is "True" with what God wants. Truth is not the enemy of God, reason not that of faith.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

nobdysfool, did this answer my question? No. What did Jesus mean by saying "vain" to modify the word "repetition"? Was he just enchanted with hearing his own voice?
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vain (adjective)

[Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin vanus empty, vain -- more at WANE]

First appeared 14th Century

1 : having no real value : IDLE, WORTHLESS

2 : marked by futility or ineffectualness : UNSUCCESSFUL, USELESS <~ efforts to escape>

3 archaic : FOOLISH, SILLY

4 : having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : CONCEITED

------------------------------------------------------------

Which definition(s) do you think are appropriate?

[SoothingDave]

Um ... did you address this to the right person?

No. 4102 is for you ,hp.

Hey ... how 'bout them Steelers? What a total shutdown of the Titan offense ... impressive.

Nothing to see here, move along. Obviously the Steelers have exposed another weak team. To get beaten by the lowly Steelers, imagine that. The Steelers are just benefitting from a weak schedule.

(Translation: we're doing just fine with everybody underestimating us, no need to change now.)

SD

[SoothingDave]

I'll take number 1 and 2. I think that the word "vain" means something. And that "vain repetition" is not the same thing as "repetition."

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Hus was treated rather poorly, don't you think? He was promised safe passage to discuss his differences with the Council of Basel. When he got there, he was imprisoned and executed. Its really no wonder that Luther did not try to reconcile, given how the Church dealt with Hus.

BUT - BUT - BUT - Angelo, it wasn't the Church which offered safe pasage to Hus. (wink-wink).

It was never the Church which did the dirty deeds. Clean hands?

[malakhi]

I see your point, but I still don't quite see how you justify the repetition when Jesus specifically said not to.

Jesus said to avoid vain repetition. Jesus was a Jew, and attended synagogue. He would have participated in the liturgical prayer of worship, which of course is repeated from service to service. Consider also

So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. (Matthew 26:44)

This was Jesus at prayer, praying that, if possible, the cup be passed from him. Was this vain repetition? One more example:

And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!" (Revelation 5:8)

[al_c]

we're doing just fine with everybody underestimating us, no need to change now

Underestimating? The number 2 defense in the league and you say they're underestimated?

[al_c]

And now you're addressing yourself. Get help, Dave. ;o)

[JohnnyM]

ok, let me ask you a question?? Do you still perform sacrifices to cover your sin?? If not why?? Do you still abstain from unclean food?? If not why??? Do you still perform circumcision?? If not why?? The Bible explains these things but they may be hidden in the Scriptures and not directly stated, and it is the Holy Spirit who reveals these truths. If you can answer the above questions then you can begin to see how Christ is the fullfillment of the Law.

Col 2:17
"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

Heb 10:1
"For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near"

JM

[SoothingDave]

Underestimating? The number 2 defense in the league and you say they're underestimated?

We haven't beat anybody with a winning record. We may have a good defense, but our inability to score TDs will haunt us in a game against a really superb offense. Everyone knows Kordell Stewert couldn't complete a pass at a nympho convention.

This week we host the defending champs. This may tell us something.

SD

[SoothingDave]

So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words. (Matthew 26:44)

Thanks, angelo. I'm sure we aren't reading this right. ;-)

SD

[malakhi]

This brings me to another huge question....aren't we supposed to follow the ten commandments? And if the 10 commandments say that we need to keep a 7th day Sabbath, aren't we disobeying God by not doing it?

The 10 Commandments were given to Israel. From the Jewish perspective, they are not binding on non-Jews. Jews believe that gentiles are under the Covenant of Noah, which are seven commandments from the Hebrew scriptures (particularly Genesis Chapter 9) which are binding on all mankind. They are:

1) to establish courts of justice
2) not to commit blasphemy
3) not to commit idolatry
4) not to commit incest and adultery
5) not to commit bloodshed
6) not to commit robbery
7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal

Here is a good site for more information:

B’Nai No’ach: Children of Noah and The Seven Laws

[dignan3]

Everyone knows Kordell Stewert couldn't complete a pass at a nympho convention.

I nominate this as the quote of the day.

Pray for him

[malakhi]

Top of the Morning to you all! What a beautiful day!

Why Dave, you're positively giddy! You'd think your favorite football team had just won a huge victory or something... ;o)

I didn't expect to see you in before noon.

[malakhi]

Top of the Morning to you all! What a beautiful day!

Why Dave, you're positively giddy! You'd think your favorite football team had just won a huge victory or something... ;o)

I didn't expect to see you in before noon.