Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Thanks, I didn't think of it. Not sure where I picked it up.
I also think that if it came from the other "side" there would be some here who might be offended. What thinkest thou?
It's all in the attitude. I'm not sure if it was originally a slur which was inverted or not. It's like Chris Rock can make all kind of N-word jokes, but Jerry Seinfeld can't.
Personally I wouldn't be offended by the term, as long as it wasn't surrounded by more offensive put downs.
SD
I went to the dam to get some dam water and the dam man told me I couldn't have any dam water so I told the dam man to keep his dam water.
Was some one cussing here today? Wordsmith sickem boy. :)
BigMack
Ironically, I think it is a violation of natural law to be squeezed into a 16 inch seat for hours with nothing but a crummy magazine, a bag of pretzels (God forbid we have peants anymore), and a $4 cocktail.
But I complain. There are peasants in the Third World who've never even had the opportunity to urinate in a closet during severe turblance.
SD
If you mean do I believe that someone doesn't sin after after coming to Christ, then I would say no, I believe people can and do sin after coming to Christ.
If that is not what you meant could you clarify a bit more? I'm not trying to dodge, I'm trying to understand your question in order to give you a good answer.
ksen: Who keeps your home in Heaven secure? God? Or you through your own performance/obedience?
Wordsmith: If the home in Heaven is secure, is it no longer possible to choose to not take up residence there?
That is correct. We can no longer choose if we will go to Heaven or not (I changed "want" to "will" because we can "want" to do anything, that doesn't mean it will happen). Once we have believed on Christ, our eternal destination is secure, kept by the power of God.
Dave, I will answer your post later tonight. I don't want you to think that I am ignoring your posts.
-ksen
Thanks, I didn't think of it. Not sure where I picked it up.
It's been around for a long time, even in Anglican circles. It's kind of like cheesehead. Pejorative when used towards them (as in low church Anglicans using it to describe high church or Anglo-Catholic Anglicans) but something of a badge of pride when used by them.
If this is true, would it then follow that guns really do kill people? ;^)
You never went thru the 60s did you....if you can remember the 60s your weren't there. (I don't remember, mom told me) :)
BigMack
I.e., what is meant by this, in terms of what one does, experiences, thinks, knows, experiences, etc. when one "believes on Christ."
BigMack
Wrong. The Catechism clearly teaches that all unchaste sexual activity -- sexual activity other than that conducted out of love between husband and wife under the sacrament of marriage -- is "intrinsically disordered", i.e. sinful.
First, we are taught what constitutes chaste sexual activity:
THE VOCATION TO CHASTITY2337 Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being.
Sexuality, in which man's belonging to the bodily and biological world is expressed, becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman.
[...]
2338 The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It
tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.
Then we are given examples of unchaste sexual activity:
Offenses against chastityIn other words: any sexual activity that does not serve to bring men and women together is morally disordered -- evil. Such activities include masturbation...2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
heterosexual intercourse outside of marriage...
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138
2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
pornography...
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.prostitution...
rape...
2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. The one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit. Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.
and both homosexual intercourse...
2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them.
and homosexual inclination -- i.e. the "lifestyle"...
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively dirordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
So what kind of sexual behavior is holy and proper? The catechism is clear:
III. THE LOVE OF HUSBAND AND WIFE2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.
To reiterate: the teaching of the Church regarding human sexuality is that sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes. The only kind of moral sexual pleasure possible is that which is sought for the sake of procreation and the unity of man and woman within the bond of marriage, integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman, and no other.
Your assertion that the Catechism does not condemn any sexuality outside of man-woman marriage is thus refuted.
Oh my God, Robby owens a gun!!!
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