The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[malakhi]

I did quit for a while, then started again in the summer and that is when he got involved:) Kind of funny now.

I'll take the blame for that...I freepmailed you to invite you to the Thread 100 reunion.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I'll take the blame for that...I freepmailed you to invite you to the Thread 100 reunion.

I encouraged Angelo to the party and chased Becky away for three days. Go figure.

[OLD REGGIE]

Re my response #30634:

Allow me to state SD "conveniently" failed to indicate he was speaking of the Tridentine Mass when he made this statement.

"And your snide comment that neither the priest or laity understand the Mass is perhaps colored too much by your own experience. It is an insult to the vast majority of Catholics who care enough to learn how to participate in the liturgy."

It was my carelessness which made me miss this omission and now SneakyDave will probably twist my comment to suit his own purposes.

Let me make it clear. I believe the vast majority of RC's don't care a whit about the Tridentine Mass. Furthermore, I believe the vast majority of RC's, including Priests, are not conversant in Latin.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Actually we started posting a little before the 100 mark, I usually posted in the morning and Mack at night. One morning I clicked on and made a post and someone jumped on me for something Mack said the night before, and that is when I came clean about there being 2 of us. That was a fun day:) My goodness, I am reminiscing about an Internet thread. Maybe we should all get out more:)

Becky

[SoothingDave]

Let me make it clear. I believe the vast majority of RC's don't care a whit about the Tridentine Mass. Furthermore, I believe the vast majority of RC's, including Priests, are not conversant in Latin.

You also gave the impression that you were not speaking of now, 40 years after the Tridentine Mass's suppression, but rather of then, when it was the everyday Mass. Did you not mean it that way?

SD

[The_Reader_David]

The moderators seem to have pulled the post where the question was asked, but I will observe that "Allah" is simply Arabic for God. The word is used in reference to the All-Holy Trinity by Arabic speaking Orthodox Christians (my Patriarch included). The question of whether the Mohammedan "Allah" is the same as the Christian Allah (or the Jewish YHWH) is on the same order as whether the God of the heretic Sabellius is the same as the God of Orthodox Christians. If one is very strict one says no, if not, one charitably says that the one is an erroneous perception or portrail of the other.

Classical Islam was regarded by Church Fathers contemporaneous with its rise as a Christian heresy. St. John of Damascus, who knew the teachings of Islam quite well, having served as chamberlain in the court of the Caliph wrote the first Christian critique of Islam in those terms. (Incidentally, the 'Islam is a tolerant religion' propaganda has a historical basis in the period of the Caliphate. Alas, this quality seems lacking both in the rise of Islam and in more recent centuries.)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Yeah, ya bully:)

Becky

[malakhi]

I think you are stretching here. The verse is not asking who said they COULD do these things, it is asking who DID do those things.

As I said, they are rhetorical questions. The point is that these men could not do these deeds. Compare to the end of Job. You are confused in this case as to who the "who" refers to!

Furthermore, consider "What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!" Ìf your interpretation is correct, then "surely" the Jews of the time of Agur knew the name of the son. It must have been common knowledge if they were expected to know it. And yet there is no mention of of the name "Jesus" as the son of God.

BTW, here’s some good advice, stay out of the woods near Mack’s house. ;^)

Heh heh, I invited Mack to come up to Milwaukee for the Harley Davidson 100 year reunion. When he does, a minyan of Sicilian Jews are gonna take him and dunk him in the mikveh. I wonder if he's circumcised...? ;o)

[SoothingDave]

Heh heh, I invited Mack to come up to Milwaukee for the Harley Davidson 100 year reunion.

Hey, mind if some of us orthodox Catholics come up to celebrate the retirement of Archbishop Weakland?

(How do you chant "Nah Nah Nah Nah Hey Hey Hey Goodbye" in Latin?)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I'll take the blame for that...

I didn't see no :) at the end of that.

Is the barrel a little tight fitting today?

BigMack

[SoothingDave]

Hey, did you guys happen to see this post about U2?

I point you to it only because I made a funny joke and nobody seemed to get it.

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

you have mail

Becky

[OLD REGGIE]

It is obvious that you have no conception of the history of either the Church or the canon of Holy Scripture. You seem to believe that St. Constantine has something to do with the "Roman Catholic Church", and institution which in its modern form has existed only since the 11th century: before that it was the Patriarchate of Rome, and part of the Church. You express complete ignorance of the fact that the Christian canon of Scripture was codified by the Church at a particular time, long after the Church was founded.

FYI I know much more than you give me credit for.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you don't understand me, take my advice, and read Pelikan's history of the Church!

Take my advice and stop looking down your nose when speaking to me. It will only make you cross eyed.

It is obvious that you have no idea of the way in which I am using the name "Constantine" in my dialogue with SoothingDave yet you feel competent to lecture me. The tone of your "lectures" only serve to enhance my impression of your pompousity.

[Uri’el-2012]

DouglasKC;angelo

DKC>As others have pointed out, Jesus was YHWH...not only that but Christ was the actual LORD, YHWH that dealt with Moses, Abraham and almost everyone else in the old testament that had personal contact with God...a pre-incarnate Jesus
a>You may believe this, but it cannot be supported from the Hebrew scriptures. You derive this from your "New Testament", not from the "Old Testament" (as your citations clearly evince).
30584 posted on 2/27/02 1:19 PM Mountain by angelo

My L-rd's Name Y'shua which means “Yahweh is salvation”

1. Jesus:
(Iesous) is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew “Joshua” ([ [“vuwOhy],
yehoshua`]), meaning “Yahweh is salvation.” It stands therefore in the
Septuagint and Apocrypha for “Joshua,” and in
Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 likewise represents the Old Testament Joshua; hence, in
the Revised Version (British and American) is in these passages rendered
“Joshua.” In Matthew 1:21 the name as commanded by the angel to be
given to the son of Mary, “for it is he that shall save his people from their
sins” (see below on “Nativity”). It is the personal name of the Lord in the
Gospels and the Acts, but generally in the Epistles appears in combination
with “Christ” or other appellative (alone in Romans 3:26; 4:24;
1 Corinthians 12:3; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Phil 2:10;1 Thessalonians 4:14;
Hebrews 7:22; 10:19, etc.)

INTERNATIONAL
STANDARD BIBLE
ENCYCLOPEDIA
VOL. 6 J-KUSHAIAH

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I point you to it only because I made a funny joke and nobody seemed to get it.

Lol. I got it.

[SoothingDave]

It is obvious that you have no idea of the way in which I am using the name "Constantine" in my dialogue with SoothingDave

I think TRD and all rational folks here know you are using the name Constantine in lieu of having an actual argument. You like to try to get my goat, and any old nonsense will do.

SD

[eastsider]

Good post, TRD. I copied and pasted it into my private library in case it, too, gets pulled. (I haven't a clue why the question itself would have been pulled; evidently, the system moderator's way is not our way : )

[SoothingDave]

Lol. I got it.

Thanks. Of course now I have to go repent of my vanity in wanting someone to laugh at my joke. :-)

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

You also gave the impression that you were not speaking of now, 40 years after the Tridentine Mass's suppression, but rather of then, when it was the everyday Mass. Did you not mean it that way?

Actually, my experience dates back more than 50 years, but, yes, I meant it for then and now. In fact, the Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Cushing, couldn't even speak Latin. He had trouble enough speaking English. I learned how to "speed talk" from him. Do you know it is possible to say the Hail Mary in less than 5 seconds if you "speed talk"?

We loved it when he, and those like him, said Mass. It meant we would be in and out much quicker.

[SoothingDave]

Actually, my experience dates back more than 50 years, but, yes, I meant it for then and now. In fact, the Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Cushing, couldn't even speak Latin.

Do you recognize that there is a difference between being fluent and eloquent in Latin and your accusation that they didn't understand it at all. I am sure that priests taught to perform the Tridentine Mass understood what they were doing, that is consecrating the Body and Blood of the Lord. I'm not saying they coudl deliver one of Cicero's orations or make up a speech on the spot.

But they weren't ignorant entirely. Even a lowly knave such as myself, with two weeks of experience, have figured out that singing Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis means "Lamb of God, who takes away the world's sins, have mercy on us."

And I didn't go to "priest school" for 7 years.

SD