Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Isaiah - This passage from Ephesians differentiates between the "inheritance" which we "have obtained" and "the redemption of the purchased possession." IMO, this passage clearly states that we have been given the inheritance, and that God will never let down His end of the bargain by not allowing us in due time to redeem this "inheritance" for the "possession."
But, it does not clearly state that we cannot of our own free will choose to reject the "redemption of the purchased possession." Like the Prodigal Son, we can tell our Father "thanks for giving me an ironclad-guaranteed inheritance, which I can always choose to redeem, but I don't want your gifts and I'm outta here."
In other words, I don't believe that this passage proves that we can't "lose our salvation" by choosing of our own free will to cast it away. Or, to use your language, "the believer" is "secure for eternity" as long as he chooses to remain a believer. But if he chooses otherwise, then God will not force him to redeem the inheritance for the purchased possession. Christ Bless.
Much of the documentation used by the N.C.'s on this thread comes directly from documents from the Vatican archives or from the Catholic Encyclopedia. The difficulty in getting to a better understanding of what went wrong so that we will not commit the same sins as those who went before us is we have to keep going over and over the same things as each new participant jumps in with the same old blah-blah we just finished discussing.
With respect to the pedophile priests there is definitely a big problem and it must be addressed, I will give you my thoughts on it on another post.
Vacuuming on this BEAUTIFUL DAY and I had a thought and had to take a break to ask you, do you think repentance is necessary for salvation? I'm asking ASSuming that we all sin - think we agree on that, right?
vmatt doesn't. How was your rest?
Why are so many RCs shocked to find out about pedophile priest who have always been moved to new parishes to victimize?
Why then don't RCs know about the homosexual popes and the perverted popes who had bastard kids all over Italy?
What's up with the animal sacrifice in RC churchs in Africa?
Why did it take a group of nuns to bring to light the sexual abuse in Africa by priests and bishops, even forcing the nuns to have abortions?????
Why? Because the Roman way is to hush it up---sweep it under the rug! That is why!
You conveniently ignore the last half of verse 3 in Matthew 24 which started the discussion about the "budding of the fig tree" and "this generation".
and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The world is still here and didn't end in 70ad. Please address.
Shhhh. You're talking too loud. :-)
Rest is Good! I had school vacation week (kids home) and also I felt the urge to take a rest from the threads after a grueling Sunday night here. Problem is, once you start posting and you lay off for a couple of days, you have tons of stuff to reply to. Bogged down before I start!
I came across this passage by Fulton Sheen and I take it to heart, seems like good advice, at least for me.
"The ancient Spartans used to say that 'a fool cannot be silent' and the Scriptures say that 'a fool's voice is known by many words' (Ecclesiastics 5:3). It is all very well to plaster our church lawn with placards saying: 'Leave the world better than you find it,' but we will never leave the world better until through silence, contemplation and prayer we improve ourselves. We must leave the world to help the world. That life is most effectively lived which every now and then withdraws from the scene of action to contemplation where one learns the terrible defeat and futility which come from excessive absorption in detail and action."
Not bad. Unless he's related to Charlie. :-)
LOL---I'm ordering a bullhorn Monday.:-)
You totally ignore the fact that I said the pedophile priests were a terrible problem and that I would answer you later.It does make one wonder if there is any point at all to responding to you,except for the hope that someone other than you would recognize the problem and offer some thoughts that might prove helpful.
No need! I sure as heck heard you loud and clear.
It's tough trying to keep everyone under the same tent. I hope to God that the problem in Boston was not hidden due to malice, I live with it every day as I'm in the Archdiocese of Boston and Cardinal Law, so I think about it a LOT. I believe that Law just didn't know what to do about it, he accepted the word of what he assumed to be rational psychiatrists and hoped it would all go away. Doesn't make it right nor does it absolve him in any way for his mistakes - and those mistakes have had horrible, tragic consequences. I am sure he is paying for it spiritually now. A huge part of the Catholic faith is "Hate the sin, love the sinner" - maybe Law adhered to that too much, I don't know.
The thing is, in my mind, that nothing changes the essential Truth of the Church. At times it is tough to see through the human sin that can veil the Truth, but you have to trust God. I may be simple in my belief, but I see the work of the devil in all of this.
Hey all - If you haven't seen it, check out this thread.
That's OK, Bill and Al and Jimmy are all Baptists... ;-)
I love this: "For Zadirov, a soft-spoken man whose first profession was testing parachute systems -- "a profession that strengthens one's faith," he says"
Now that guy has a great outlook on life!
Of course it doesn't. All faiths have their skeletons. The NC's manage to avoid more of these kinds of ad hominem attacks than the RC's do because they don't claim to be affiliated with a larger community. That's just within the bounds of an intra-Christian discussion like this, of course. If we were debating Muslims, or Buddhists, I expect they'd tar all "Christians" with the same brush - pinning the faults of a pedophile priest, for example, as much on a Baptist as on a Roman Catholic.
IMO, the kinds of attacks that Isaiah is using don't seem to come from a place of discernment. We are each responsible for our own sins. As conservatives, I think this is something we all agree on. So unless an attack includes evidence that somehow, for example, the sins of a Roman Catholic were caused by their Roman Catholicism, I don't see what place these kinds of attacks have in a mature dialogue. Christ Bless.
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