The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[OLD REGGIE]

On second thought, I could go to a Unitarian Church in a different town. There are no two alike and many which are very different.

[JHavard]

If by "mocking" you mean "point out his ignorance" or "point out that the emperor has no clothes" than I guess I'm guilty as charged.

And just who died and left you in charge of all truth, who are you to point out anyones ignorance, you had better check your eyes for a plank, and someone else can help those with dust in theirs.

[malakhi]

If one wants to avoid a train of thought that will lead him into the Catholic Church, they have just one way of responding: With circular arguments pointing to themselves.

Irishlass, do you believe that burning heretics is against the Spirit?

[OLD REGGIE]

History shows the greater number of victims is on the side of the faithful of the one church founded by Christ.

What Church is that? What history? Some documentation would be helpful.

[Irisshlass]

Read..."A Living Wage," first published in 1906 by Father John A. Ryan. *Grin*

[IMRight]

And just who died and left you in charge of all truth, who are you to point out anyones ignorance, you had better check your eyes for a plank, and someone else can help those with dust in theirs.

Ooohhh! Touchy?

I merely made a parallel argument to his while making clear that I wasn't claiming it was truth even though he was. You encouraged him while attacking me....

Mr Havard, meet Mr Plank.

[SoothingDave]

And just who died and left you in charge of all truth, who are you to point out anyones ignorance, you had better check your eyes for a plank, and someone else can help those with dust in theirs.

Oh, please. Are you now throwing your support in with the "God of usury" people? Can we not tell the difference between accepted, historical definitions of words and made up on the spot slander?

Are we to spend the rest of our lives letting people wallow in ignorance, because to correct them would be a sin? You go first.

"The teaching of salvation by faith alone means that one only has to say they believe in Christ and then they can do whatever they want with the knowledge that they are saved. " Is that a true statement? Does your Christian avoidance of judgment mean that you will let me say this thing? Who are you to tell me I am ignorant? Who are you to think you were left in charge of truth?

Deep down you think we are all paid agents, trying to lure you away from salvation. You really need to examine yourself. This kind of dark suspicion against your fellow Christian brother is not healthy.

Tell me what Theotokos means. Please.

SD

[JHavard]

Actually, I'm completely in charge. I've got a staff of 40 with multiple PC's and IP connections, extensively trained to stage this ongoing argument in such a way that the inevitable result is to lead you to reject Christianity as hopeless and accept Islam. Allah Akbar! 8^)

I'm still not sure of you, if you had any backup resources, I would have thought you would have been able to answer my post to you by now, and on my first post on Mary ever Virgin, you would have been able to give me some scripture rather then 3 pages of "what if's," and hypothetical questions and answers.

So I’m still undecided on you. (^g^) JH

[SoothingDave]

And what does the rule say about the word "if"?

I believe it says "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts then we'd all have a wonderful Christmas."

Do you think that Gabriel knew Hebrew as well as Greek? Perhaps you should check that out.

Perhaps Havoc will instruct you on the futility of arguing against what Scripture says. Do you not have respect for the Holy Spirit? Don't you think God worded the Bible the way HE wanted to? Who do you think you are to place words in the angel's mouth that are not written?

Like that. I expect Havoc to say this to you anytime now.

BTW, did you apologize for that whole "theotokos" thing yet?

SD

[Havoc]

The catechism is what we teach and believe, I have never seen a Catholic say it ain't so. If I am wrong, please correct me. My point is that you should read some Catholic literature or history. I don't dispute that you read lots, it is obvious that you do. From your posts, IMHO, it seems that a lot, if not most of your readings are from anti-Catholic writers. Now that is bias. At least I try to balance myself and read pro/con material. Truth is listening to both sides and if lucky, finding someone who is partial to neither - but that is pretty subjective as well.

One, the catechism is not the end all be all of Catholic faith. Decrees, bulls and proclaimations of councils and Popes are not contained within the catechism, yet you are inexorably bound to them. It is therefore necessary to see what catholic writers have to say. I've been assured both that the Nihil obstat and Imprimatur mean everything and nothing. In which case, nothing catholic is then trustworthy because everyone differs on what is actually taught, meant or said. Beyond that, we have the issue of all the forgeries and frauds combined with Catholic revisionism, which means that Catholic statements have as much weight as Clinton's "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..." and Nixon's "I am not a crook". External sources, from that perspective are vastly more reliable. The Catholic claims and point of view merely give perspective. I don't out of hand believe anything presented in 'catholic history' if it cannot be validated externally.

Is not the Bible full of symbolism - both OT and NT? Does symbolism replace the Lord? No, I think not. Please state facts and not opinions regarding what Catholics do. What the heck is the "invocation of non-specific authority" and what does that have to do with anything?

Who cares if the Bible invokes symbolism. When Jesus cast demons out, he didn't wave crosses, beads and incense. He commanded and it was done. The Apostles commanded in the name of Jesus, and it was done - again, no crosses, beads, incense, etc. It isn't needed. That stuff is all for piety, and is ineffectual. You can say 'father, son and holy ghost' all you want. Until you invoke the actual name of Jesus and stand on his sacrifice, you've done nothing of worth. Father and son as far as the devil is concered can be Fred and Lamont Sanford. And Satanists call the spirit of Satan holy - to them 'holy ghost' is lucifer. That is what I mean by non specifics. Ya'll don't know where the authority is. It isn't in beads, crosses, incense and pretty white robes, it's in the name of Jesus and by the blood of the cross. And that is all that is needed in the majority of cases. Annointing oil is used at times - but for special reasons in the Bible and in modern practice. It is not needed for most things but it does serve a purpose that has nothing to do with symbolism.

Bottom line, when one has authority, one need not piddle around with trying to look holy. A cop doesn't need to present degrees, uniform, and spout a bunch cop sounding stuff, waving billy clubs, stripes and crime scene tape to show authority. A cop worth his position presents his badge and, if neccessary, his gun to get the job done. Nothing ceremonious about it, he has authority and he invokes it. Just an example of what I'm saying.

[JHavard]

Read..."A Living Wage," first published in 1906 by Father John A. Ryan. *Grin*

Uh huh, what did I tell you, "A Living Wage" although that dosen't seem like much, considering what you have to do to earn your keep on these threads. (^g^) JH

[Irisshlass]

The New Testament books were really not put together as a completed Bible until approx 400 AD and also the invention of the printing press was not until 1450. So how did Christians have access, you say that believe in the Bible alone?

[OLD REGGIE]

St. Paul is saying that THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is Sacred Truth, but it was first collected, discerned to be true, and then bound in book form by the PILLAR of TRUTH, the Catholic Church. Jesus said:

Wow! What a coincidence! I found a site which uses exactly the same words as you.

Here. Oh shucks, it is a Catholic Apologetics site under this heading; "If you have the Bible, do you need anything else?"

So much for original thought.

[malakhi]

How many of us believe they are on some kind of an RCC payroll?

Uh, JH, remember that paranoia thing we talked about?

I hope you are attempting humor here.

[Irisshlass]

I spend maybe 2 hours a day on the entire net, Dad.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I believe it says "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts then we'd all have a wonderful Christmas."

Didn't Don Meredith once say "if ifs and ands were pots and pans, the world would be a kitchen sink"?

[american colleen]

Fruits in my state - although not including hospitals, schools, homeless facilities, food pantries, etc.

Catholic Charities Plymouth Guild Of 377 Court St. Plymouth, MA. 02360 (508) 746-6133

Catholic Charities Pregnancy And Fam Cnslng Grt Brrngtn Ofc 41 Mahaiwe St. Great Barrington, MA. 01230 (413) 528-9006

Catholic Charities Refugee Services 191 N Common St. Lynn, MA. 01905 (781) 593-4089

Catholic Charities Thrift Store 72 Jackson Ave. Fitchburg, MA. 01420 (978) 343-6079

Catholic Charities/North 6 Pleasant St. Malden, MA. 02148 (781) 322-3555

Community Health Service Div Of Catholic Charities 60 Legion Pkwy. Brockton, MA. 02301 (508) 586-0174

Open Hand Pantry Of Catholic Charities 15 Kenoza Ave. Haverhill, MA. 01830 (978) 372-2828

Catholic Charities Counseling Services 65 Elliot St. Springfield, MA. 01105 (413) 452-0616

Catholic Charities Counseling Services 467 North St. Pittsfield, MA. 01201 (413) 443-3169

Catholic Charities Deaf Community Center 46 Gordon St. Framingham, MA. 01702 (508) 620-0481

Catholic Charities Diocese Of Worcester 126 E Main St. Milford, MA. 01757 (508) 478-9632

Catholic Charities Family Day Care 18 Central Rd # F. Somerville, MA. 02143 (617) 623-8555

Catholic Charities Food Pantry 760 Merrimack St. Lowell, MA. 01854 (978) 454-9946

Catholic Charities Local Offices 12 Riverbend St. Athol, MA. 01331 (978) 249-4563

Catholic Charities Local Offices 53 Highland Ave. Fitchburg, MA. 01420 (978) 343-7118

Catholic Charities Merrimack Valley 439 S Union St. Lawrence, MA. 01843 (978) 685-5930

Catholic Charities Merrimack Valley 70 Lawrence St. Lowell, MA. 01852 (978) 452-1421

Catholic Charities North Glouster 11 Parker St. Gloucester, MA. 01930 (978) 283-3055

Catholic Charities North Lynn 37 N Federal St. Lynn, MA. 01905 (781) 598-2759

Catholic Charities North Lynn 55 Lynn Shore Dr. Lynn, MA. 01902 (781) 477-7486

Catholic Charities North Salem 50 Leavitt Ct. Salem, MA. 01970 (978) 741-2466

Cambridge Catholic Charities Family Day Care 30 York St. Cambridge, MA. 02141 (617) 868-8554

Catholic Charities 79 Elm St. Southbridge, MA. 01550 (508) 765-3430

Catholic Charities 75 Bethany Rd. Framingham, MA. 01702 (508) 875-9545

Catholic Charities 9 Margin St. Peabody, MA. 01960 (978) 532-6860

Catholic Charities 285 Adams St. Newton, MA. 02458 (617) 332-9905

Catholic Charities 333 Cross St. Malden, MA. 02148 (781) 324-0614

Catholic Charities Adoption Program 270 Washington St. Somerville, MA. 02143 (617) 625-1920

Catholic Charities Adoption Program 270 N Washington St. Boston, MA. 02114 (617) 625-1920

Catholic Charities Appeal 344 Highland Ave. Fall River, MA. 02720 (508) 676-6591

Catholic Charities Brigids Crossing 221 Pawtucket Blvd. Lowell, MA. 01854 (978) 454-0081

Catholic Charities Brockton 686 N Main St. Brockton, MA. 02301 (508) 587-0815

Catholic Charities Center 72 Mount Auburn St. Watertown, MA. 02472 (617) 924-6875

Catholic Charities Centre Of The Old Colony Area 685 N Main St. Brockton, MA. 02301 (508) 586-0174

Catholic Charities Child Care Division 19 Saint Joseph St. Jamaica Plain, MA. 02130 (617) 524-9595

Catholic Charities Childrens Center 920 Trapelo Rd. Waltham, MA. 02452 (781) 894-4087

Catholic Charities North Salem 280 Washington St. Salem, MA. 01970 (978) 740-6923

[SoothingDave]

Who cares if the Bible invokes symbolism. When Jesus cast demons out, he didn't wave crosses, beads and incense. He commanded and it was done. The Apostles commanded in the name of Jesus, and it was done - again, no crosses, beads, incense, etc.

Annointing oil is used at times - but for special reasons in the Bible and in modern practice. It is not needed for most things but it does serve a purpose that has nothing to do with symbolism.

Oh wise one, please tell me the purpose of oil, as it is not a symbol but used for "special reasons." Please educate me.

I am glad you pre-thought that the use of oil invalidated yoru entire argument about how Jesus and the Apostles didn't need anything to effect miracles. Now I am interested in your rationalization of the obvious flaw in your theory.

You can say 'father, son and holy ghost' all you want. Until you invoke the actual name of Jesus and stand on his sacrifice, you've done nothing of worth. Father and son as far as the devil is concered can be Fred and Lamont Sanford. And Satanists call the spirit of Satan holy - to them 'holy ghost' is lucifer. That is what I mean by non specifics. Ya'll don't know where the authority is.

LOL. You really are confused. Did you ever notice that we invoke the name of the Father, Son and Spirit. Not the "names." We are not calling up three different beings, we are caling on the one God. And Satan knows that the name does not refer to himself or the Sanfords.

I don't know about you, but when I speak of the Trinity, Jesus is included. I believe Jesus is one of the persons of the Trinity, one of the Persons of God. You seem to think tha the Trinity and Jesus are different things.

This is strange.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

That was a good,clear response and whether any of the N.C.'s agree or not it cuts to the chase and captures why we believe what we believe about our Catholic faith. Your post --800 was also very good and Catholic, I liked it!!

You are right about a few things. It is Catholic (Apologetic) and it is a good example of cut and paste.

[Iowegian]

They played as well as any bunch of sissies could play. The Pats smacked them around so much the "couldn't" play as well as they "could" have. The Rams would have won big time if they played flag football.

Well, those are fighting words, so let's look at some other factors that you haven't considered. On the play where the Pats defender mugged Marshall Faulk repeatedly so he couldn't run his pass route, the Pat's player responded: "I don't know why they called that penalty, we played like that all day." This told me all I needed to know about what dirty players the Pats are. Then I heard many who said that the Pats played that way all during the playoffs. The refs don't like to call penalties a lot during the Super Bowl, so if they call it correctly every time the game would come to a standstill and the refs would get criticized mercilessly. So they let the Pats get away with things that are against the rules and these things affected the game. Now do I need to talk about that ridiculous "fumble" non-call that got them to the Super Bowl in the first place?