Posted on 10/11/2001 8:44:26 PM PDT by sola gracia
"Everything has changed." That refrain has become as common in the post-9/11 world as "God bless America."
America's culture-makers—many of whom live in New York City—are deeply shaken. The intellectual movements, artistic styles, and entertainment fads now seem obsolete.
True, left-wing academics like Noam Chomsky and Susan Sontag treat American values with a disdain second only, perhaps, to Osama bin Laden. But in insisting that the terrorist attacks were justified because of America's imperialism, its support of Israel, and oppression of the developing world, the post-Marxists on university campuses are making fools of themselves, to the point that it is evident even to college students.
As Andrew Sullivan, senior editor of The New Republic, points out, the leftists are putting themselves in the uncomfortable position of supporting an ideology that brutally subjugates women (to the point of flogging them for walking by themselves in public), executes homosexuals, and outlaws nearly every human freedom. People who have made their careers by condemning America for being anti-woman, homophobic, and oppressive are now defending a regime that really is all of these things. And anyone who compares New York City to Afghanistan has to admit that America is a free country, after all, that it has ideals worth defending.
Hollywood, with a guilty conscience, is toning down its violence. The art world is calling for an end to irony and nihilism.
So what changes can we expect on the cultural scene? If irony, cynicism, and nihilism have become irrelevant, what next?
Possibly we may see a new appreciation for America's heritage. Patriotism is back, big time. Churches are full. The terrorists hate America's freedom and they hate Christianity. This is reason enough to stop taking them for granted and to build on them once again.
But there are other possibilities. An excess of freedom, warned Plato, is often followed by an excess of tyranny. Could the culture go from the extreme of anything goes to the other extreme of social oppression?
Liberals are crowing that the era of distrust of government is over. There are calls for national ID cards and the suspension of constitutional rights. Many in the timorous public seem willing to give up freedom for security—just as the great Christian cultural critic Francis Schaeffer warned about decades ago.
Perhaps more dangerous in the post-postmodernist era is what may happen to religion. Suddenly the cultural hostility to faith went up in smoke, when Americans faced real pain and real spiritual need. This was a good sign. And yet, in the well-intentioned "interfaith prayer services," a more disturbing note was sounded. Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus were all worshipping together, praying, it was said, "to the same God."
The Bible strictly forbids syncretistic worship, the mingling of biblical and pagan religions, a violation of the First Commandment. When the Israelites brought idols of Baal into the Temple, presumably because they thought they and the Canaanites worshipped "the same god," the real God was not pleased.
Such multi-faith worship may be the beginning of the much-anticipated "one-world religion," which, though filled with pious emotionalism and religiosity, will be far different from Christianity.
Another theological possibility is a militant secularism. Salman Rushdie, the novelist who has been under an Islamic death sentence, wrote a column for The Washington Post in which he takes to task the anti-American left but also urges the exaltation of everything the Islamic "fundamentalists" are against.
"The fundamentalist seeks to bring down a great deal more than buildings," Mr. Rushdie writes. "Such people are against, to offer just a brief list, freedom of speech, a multi-party political system, universal adult suffrage, accountable government, Jews, homosexuals, women's rights, pluralism, secularism, short skirts, dancing, beardlessness, evolution theory, sex."
It is easy, he says, to be against terrorism. "But what are we for? What will we risk our lives to defend? Can we unanimously concur that all the items in the above list—yes, even the short skirts and dancing—are worth dying for?"
Just as the Romans were unwilling to die for their orgies in the face of the barbarian onslaught, Americans, though open to many things on that list, are probably unwilling to die for such things as evolution, homosexuality, and short skirts.
The point, though, is that, in some circles, people are already lumping conservative Christians together with the Muslim terrorists as "fundamentalists," as the enemy who deserves to be stamped out.
The inital post follows
Oh yes it is..They worship false gods.. The God of the Jews, the God of Islam, the God of the Philosophers and the God of Brahman Hindus, is the same as our God. Our paths diverge after that. Granted, the Trinity has not been revealed to these other people, but we don't have a complete understanding of God's essence either. 19 posted on 10/12/01 12:11 PM Pacific by AquinasfanPlease not it was a greneral statement not "Catholic Bashing" you guys are paranoid...I am no longer a Catholic,i have some very strong opinions about the Catholic Church,but I did not,nor do I intent to express them tonightMy reply The God of the Jews, the God of Islam, the God of the Philosophers and the God of Brahman Hindus, is the same as our God. Our paths diverge after that. Granted, the Trinity has not been revealed to these other people, but we don't have a complete understanding of God's essence either. We can agree that the God of the Jews is the God of Christian believers. But allah is a false god..as is brahman....to say we have different "paths" is foolish new-age gibberish Deuteronomy 5 Thou shalt have none other gods before me. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: They are going to hell!
His response
To: RnMomof7 Mohammed was a false prophet, but that doesn't mean that "Allah" is a false god. "Allah" is the Aramaic word for "God." Yes, Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. But that also means that God is Truth. We can't deny truths in other religion, because all truth is God's truth. So when other religions teach that God sustains everything in existence, that God is One, that God is omnipotent, et cetera, we have to affirm these truths. Yes, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. But does that mean that someone has to recognize Jesus explicitly? Certainly someone who "loves his neighbor as himself," without understanding and explicitly acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior through no fault of his own, implicitly acknowledges Jesus. 28 posted on 10/13/01 5:58 AM Pacific by Aquinasfan
My responses
To: Aquinasfan Brahman Hinduism teaches about a God who sustains everything in its existence. It's essentially monotheistic. And there in lays the problem... The Holy God of Israel is THE God.. 30 posted on 10/13/01 7:18 AM Pacific by RnMomof7
To: Aquinasfan We can't deny truths in other religion, because all truth is God's truth. So when other religions teach that God sustains everything in existence, that God is One, that God is omnipotent, et cetera, we have to affirm these truths . Yes, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. But does that mean that someone has to recognize Jesus explicitly? Certainly someone who "loves his neighbor as himself," without understanding and explicitly acknowledging Jesus as Lord and Savior through no fault of his own, implicitly acknowledges Jesus. You have been hanging around liberal Catholic theologians too long.:>) Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Philippians9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. As for loving your neighbor as a marker or means of salvation...well Luther put that aside! Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Romans 11:6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Ephesians 2 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. None of this is new to you ...so I hope that you were just generating some discussion Jesus is Lord and those that refuse to bend their knee to Him are lost.. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; .. 31 posted on 10/13/01 7:45 AM Pacific by RnMomof7
His response
: RnMomof7 "Faith without works is dead." That's in the Bible too. Intellectual assent is not enough. And what did Luther think about this passage? He regarded James as an "epistle of straw." 38 posted on 10/13/01 12:47 PM Pacific by Aquinasfan
My response
To: Aquinasfan "Faith without works is dead." That's in the Bible too. Intellectual assent is not enough. And what did Luther think about this passage? He regarded James as an "epistle of straw." I have been taught to appreciate Romans recently *a grin here for all good Calvinists* Romans 3 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 9 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3 who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? And may I add that works without faith damns a man to hell 45 posted on 10/13/01 1:51 PM Pacific by RnMomof7 [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
His response..and the one in question..
To: RnMomof7
And may I add that works without faith damns a man to hell
So only someone who "accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior" is saved? Are all Muslims damned? All Hindus? All agnostics?
My response To: Aquinasfan So only someone who "accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior" is saved? Are all Muslims damned? All Hindus? All agnostics? 48 posted on 10/13/01 2:45 PM Pacific by Aquinasfan Yes as are Catholics and Protestants that think they are saved by works. 49 posted on 10/13/01 3:07 PM Pacific by RnMomof7</font size>
I have to consider this as I have always considered Pentacost the "birthday " of the church..
I find that all too confusing..Pre/post /AHHHHHHH *grin*
I am not sure where I fit in that mess..I always figured He is in charge,however it works . I believe that there will be a tribulation per revelation...I believe that there will be a midtrib,or later rapture...that there will be a judgement then..I have no clue if there will be a reign on the current earth or in the "New Jerusalam"....
I need to read a bit more on this..I believe we are in the end times now..
So where does this mish mash put me??LOL
The fatwa against Rushdie was withdrawn years ago.
Spare us this lurid Hollywood history, please. When the Western empire ceased to function, Catholic Christianity had been its official religion for 100 years.
I've seen attempts to explain the attacks from this direction. But an explanation and an excuse are two different things.
This much is true, as attempts are made to flip the dislectic into that of faith vs. "progress".
First, Paine was not a founding father regardless of his influence on the masses. Second, J.Adams was a Calvinist as was most of New England although later in life I believe he wrote about having problems with the Trinity.
Of the 55 men who wrote and signed the U.S. Constitution of 1787, all but 3 were orthodox members of one of the established Christian communions: approximately 29 Anglicans, 16 to 18 Calvinists, 2 Methodists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 lapsed Quaker and sometime-Anglican, and 1 open Diest- Dr. Franklin who attended every kind of Christian worship, called for public prayer, and contributed to all denominations.
Tim LaHaye,Faith of our Founding Fathers1987
You're right, but that is nothing new. We've been in the "end times" a/k/a "the last days" since the time of Christ.
You're welcome!!
In God's time ............Kairos...........He will come again to rule the living and the dead...You are right just as we are dying from the day we are born,the days have been counted and numbered since the cross!.....
Thanks for the posts..I have book marked them...they are a clear explaination.I may have a question or two when I reread them after church
You said " Only a "dictator" could comply with this request:"
The operative word is 'consider'. You don't have to be a dictator to introduce legislation or amendments in this country. She asked the President to 'consider'. Really now that happens every day in a democracy.
Yep, you need a reading lesson.
Klintoon.... is that you?
No .... the operative word is not "consider" ... the operative word is "putting", as in, "putting something back".
Give it up, Klintoon. Most here aren't among Karl Marx' useful idiots who don't know what the meaning of "is", is.
You're right ... the majority do worship a god in their own image. The hirelings and soothsayers in the visible church know that too, and make sure they don't *offend* the majority, if they want to continue to live in the style to which they've become accustomed.
BTW ... would you be averse to telling me where you get "your concept" of God?
It would be interesting to know how you know you have "inalieable" rights and freedoms, also. Do men give you your rights? With what proofs would you defend your arguments for what you *know*?
You con't.... "Beware the man of one book.- St. Thomas Aquinas"
"Beware the man who teaches that the Bible isn't composed of 66 books." - St. Matchett PI
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