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To: OLD REGGIE
This is "smoke". There are dramatically different beliefs and practices among the laity of the RCC throughout the world. Whether there is a "Book" behind this is irrevelant. If the Church and its' people don't go by this "Book" what is it worth?

There are dramatically different beliefs and practices among people who profess to follow the book called "The Bible." What is it worth then? Should we not attempt to write down what we know as true and transmit it to all and future? Some might dissent, so why bother?

Yes, and exactly what did he mean when he said "two or three"? That doesn't sound like the Magesterium of the (entire) body of the Church. It certainly doesn't imply that one of them is superior.

All the apostles were given the power to bind and loose. Today all Bishops have this power. Only Peter got the keys, which means he has the final say on all maters.

I don't necessarilly disagree that it could be used to defend the idea of the Apostolic Church. (The Orthodox Bishops, The Episcopal Bishops, and probably any Pastor who is ordained by the "laying on of hands".) Why not?

Why not what? Do you mean why not these other bishops and pastors? That's what I'll answer.

It is not just a question of having someone laying hands on one to ordain him. The man doing so must have the authority to do so. This authority only comes from a direct succession. The Orthodox have maintained this succession and their bishops and priests are validly ordained. The Anglicans used to have a claim to maintaining Apostolic succession. In some cases their priests are valid, but it is largely not so anymore. They've ordained women and practicing homosexuals. It can not be said that any given Anglican priest is valid.

Other churches can not usually said be said in any way to derive their teaching authority from a direct ordination from a validly ordained Bishop of any of the above mentiones churches.

SD

12 posted on 10/11/2001 11:13:27 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
The Anglicans used to have a claim to maintaining Apostolic succession. In some cases their priests are valid, but it is largely not so anymore. They've ordained women and practicing homosexuals. It can not be said that any given Anglican priest is valid.

You couldn't have thought I would let this one pass. Orders cannot be invalidated retroactively, nor can the invalidity of one anglican church have an invalidating effect on those of another anglican church. There are Anglican churches around (not only continuing anglicans) who have maintained the validity of their orders and do not "ordain" women. The ordination of practicing homosexuals is largely an American innovation.

It is important to keep in mind that the "Anglican Church" is really an association of "anglican churches."

17 posted on 10/11/2001 11:33:16 AM PDT by trad_anglican
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