Recent Changes @ FreeRepublic UPDATED

[John Robinson]

There is some odd problem with Netscape and italics getting stuck on. It's something to do with the style sheets, I believe. So I am killing the default style sheet.

Original Thread

See the original thread if you would like to install your own custom style sheet.

[George W. Bush]

I just got my background-image set. FR wallpaper under user control is so cool. I set different wallpapers for the two levels of BLOCKQUOTES and for the entire page. Three different wallpapers at once really makes it stand out. Thanks, John.

Any chance of starting a thread or contest for the best style sheets? Maybe with some sample pictures? I'd love to see what others are doing. Just waiting for more of your magic. And maybe that larger or customizable TEXTAREA for the Post Reply page (hint, hint)...

[steveegg]

Comments on some of these points (and also comments on JohnRob's responses) from the point of view of a Netscape 4.77 user, as well as a few further thoughts:

2. BLOCKQUOTE: Bad Idea--For the articles--I, and many others, do not need anyone's help formatting articles, thankyouverymuch. If you want Typographically Correct paragraph widths and margins, use the HTML template I devised. It is simply three nested tables, and looks the same in every browser from Netscape Navigator 3 to Internet Explorer 6. For the replies--BLOCKQUOTE is for BLOCKQUOTING, not for formatting/page layout. Until everyone is using a browser that supports at least CSS1 _100%_ to the specification, TABLES should and must be used for formatting and page layout.

John:  Tables were my first choice. Very large images or strings of text stretch the width of the table beyond the right edge of the screen. I originally had the whole thread in one table, but the first large image or long URL destroyed the right margin. I then put each reply in a table to localize the screw-up, but it was still a screw-up. I discovered that BLOCKQUOTE does the right thing with the margin, it allows an image outside of it's right margin but contains what it can.

First, tables worked just fine for me until the auto-blockquote started, so don't take this as a knock against tables per se. There HAS to be a better way to prevent spoofed threads from looking too close to the real thing. The problem for us Netscape 4.7x users are certain tables nested inside of blockquotes. I can't quite figure out exactly the trigger that prevents the </blockquote> tag from working (probably improperly-crafted tables), but it's happened on several nested-table threads.

Prohibition of STYLE: Very Bad Idea--An article's content should be preserved as much as possible when it is posted here. Preserving style was as simple as cutting and pasting from the original site's style sheet and changing all the CLASS elements to STYLE. Now this is impossible.

John:  I prohibit style because I haven't yet written a style filter to block the positioning bomb. I also want to filter style because I don't know when in the future some browser will stuff executable code in style sheets. My focus is to disallow executable code. (JavaScript etc.)

Until John cranks up a style filter (IMHO, it should now be top priority), I can't offer any sympathy. I've seen too many threads broken by the use of absolute positioning to be sympathetic to those pleas. While some of these threads may be retrievable in certain browsers, the replies between the one that broke the thread and the one that fixed it are gone to all except those willing to go through the source code.

4. Personal style sheets: Very Very Bad Idea--if people want to view this site with their own style sheets, they can use their browsers to do this. Example under IE 5: Tools > Options > General > Accessibility > "Format documents using my style sheet"

John:  Didn't realize browsers could choose their own style sheets. Hrm.

I cannot more strongly disagree, at least under current circumstances. I am currently using a customized style sheet that comes quite close to bringing the forum back to what it looked like before all the blockquoting began (true, it's Netscape 4.x-optimized, but it can be modified to work as well on IE and Netscape 6). I don't have the option of using a personal style sheet in Netscape 4.77 (and no, I am NOT going to switch to IE to get it, and I don't care if Nutscape 6.x has it; I have serious issues with both of those browsers). Morever, there's a pair of problems with this, especially with regard to the current blockquote situation (at least in IE 6) - it locks all non-CSS pages into a set style, and it doesn't work on the blockquotes.

[George W. Bush]

I cannot more strongly disagree, at least under current circumstances. I am currently using a customized style sheet that comes quite close to bringing the forum back to what it looked like before all the blockquoting began (true, it's Netscape 4.x-optimized, but it can be modified to work as well on IE and Netscape 6).

I thought I'd post a link to my FR page at GeoCities where I have placed a screen capture of your reply to JohnRob with the a custom style sheet I'm using. It's not perfect yet but I thought people might enjoy seeing the sorts of things we're going to be able to do now. I also posted my style sheet for anyone who's looking for ideas. Notice that my three wallpapers are stored on my hard drive so there is no delay for the wallpapers to load.

JohnRob, is this the sort of thing you had in mind?

Have a look at what FR looks like to on my machine with IE6!

[steveegg]

OUTSTANDING!!!!. I'll have to try translating that to Netscape 4.77.

[George W. Bush]

OUTSTANDING!!!!. I'll have to try translating that to Netscape 4.77.

Yeah, my top margin in the BLOCKQUOTEs is too tall and I haven't got it quite right yet. And the wallpaper choices are a little busy, the fonts might vary for better readability, and I might lighten the borders on the BLOCKQUOTEs to a grey or a muted darker color. Oh, yeah, JohnRob has the style sheets running on the Post Reply page so you see it all in Previews too!

I really hope that JohnRob will consider a shorthand for BLOCKQUOTE like <q> or <bq>. It would encourage people to use it more.

[steveegg]

<q> already exists in the HTML language, though it doesn't appear to do anything in either Netscape 4.77 or IE 6 (look at the source and you'll find the <q> and </q> tags in this sentence). As for virtual tags like <hq>, IIRC, John said he'd look at adding them in, with something for blockquote near the top of the list.

[George W. Bush]

<q> already exists in the HTML language, though it doesn't appear to do anything in either Netscape 4.77 or IE 6

Thanks. I wish the <P> tag which starts each post now could be removed. My view would come out perfect then. Any chance that each post could skip the <P> and just start with a BLOCKQUOTE, John?

I just updated my style sheet and screen snapshot over at frgeorgewbush to look a little better.

[George W. Bush]

I just updated my style sheet and screen snapshot over at frgeorgewbush to look a little better.

Now I got my FR pages to display in 3d!!

Yow! I'm having so much fun, I'm going to give up posting completely and just edit my FR style sheets. I'm getting so carried away, I may have to report myself for Abuse!

[John Robinson]

WOW! Incredible!

[xm177e2]

Can you tell us how to make all of the text people post blockquoted? That's the only way to get most of the effects with the CSS to apply only to the text people post and not the FR text (the buttons like [reply], etc.)

When the Preview button is right next to the "Post Reply," people might click on "Post" by accident, and that could lead to silly/incomplete posts or even offensive ones, if people accidentally post before they mean to.

[John Robinson]

Use DIV.body to affect all NEW articles and replies. This replaces the BLOCKQUOTE, which was causing problems with both Netscape and MSIE.

Use DIV.body BLOCKQUOTE to affect all NEW articles and replies. This affects blockquotes within reply text.

I am currently using a DIV.body to set a left margin and limit the width to about 8-10 words. BLOCKQUOTEs are italicized, with a thin black border on top and bottom of the quoted text.

DIV.body
{
  FONT-FAMILY: "Bookman Old Style";
  margin-left: 40px;
  width: 400px;
}
DIV.body BLOCKQUOTE
{
  BORDER-TOP: black thin solid;
  PADDING-BOTTOM: 1%;
  PADDING-TOP: 1%;
  BORDER-BOTTOM: black thin solid;
  FONT-STYLE: italic;
}

[xm177e2]

Thanks! Good work, I love the new style sheets.

[John Robinson]

test bump

[xm177e2]

Here's Mine:

BODY
{
    BACKGROUND-COLOR: FFFFFA
}
EM
{
    FONT-STYLE: normal;
    BACKGROUND-COLOR: #44DDFF
}
BLOCKQUOTE
{
    FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana";
    FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
}

BLOCKQUOTE BLOCKQUOTE
{
    PADDING-Left: 1%;
    BORDER-Left: #11AACC medium solid;
}

DIV.body
{
  FONT-FAMILY: "Verdana";
  margin-left: 40px;
  margin-right: 40px;
  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
}
DIV.body BLOCKQUOTE
{
    PADDING-Left: 1%;
    BORDER-Left: #11AACC medium solid;
}

Of course, I've got a 17-inch monitor set to 1024x768, and I like small letters. This .css won't appeal to everyone.

[deport]

Question......

Are the source and author searches going to be returned?

[George W. Bush]

Of course, I've got a 17-inch monitor set to 1024x768, and I like small letters. This .css won't appeal to everyone.

Which version of Netscape or IE are you running?

[xm177e2]

IE Version 6.0.2600.0000

[George W. Bush]

I revised my style sheet. Now it works fine for standard posts but <blockquote>'s add an extra line above themselves. Maybe a fluke with IE6?

I updatd my screen capture and posted my style sheet over at my GeoCities dump site frgeorgewbush.

[The Westerner]

Thanks for putting the margin all the way to the left. It's much easier to read over here.

[clikker]

Mr. Robinson, I just noticed the changes to made to the "post reply" page, and I really like the HTML Help thingy. It's really helpful as a reminder to remember hard things.

For example, I could never remember how to highlight before. Thanks! (Wait a second... that didn't work! It didn't highlight! Did I mess something up?)

However, could you please put back the "e-mail" field that let me display a little line of text next to my screen name? I really liked that feature. I know, I know, you can just click on the profile, but it was fun to put a little "pithy" closing remark in it. I know it's redundant and all, but it was nice.

I feel really bad about complaining, since I couldn't do half of the stuff that you do, for half the time you slave away doing it. Thank you so very much for all your hard work!