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To: IGBT; dangus; It's me; Wallace T.
>>Only thing is the REAL Irish aren't red-headed and freckled. Ireland gets that from the viking invaders. Turns out the real Irish are the Black Irish: Dark featured, but still rather pale skin and rather short.

You'd make a great fiction writer, but do us a favour and don't give up the day job just yet! The fact is, 99% of men with Gaelic surnames in the province of Connacht and 96% of men in Munster carry a genetic marker called Haplogroup R1B, which originated in Iberia 30,000 years ago, and is therefore associated with the first inhabitants of Europe - the Stonage Europeans. This genetic marker is also found in "Viking countries" but it is in the minority. If the Vikings had an impact on the genes of Ireland, then non R1B genes would be present in higher numbers there. 8% of Irish people have red hair, 10% of Scottish, the highest percentages in the world. As a whole, Ireland is about 80% R1B, as are Scotland, Wales and Cornwall. The Basque country is about 90% R1B, and England is 50%.

Y-Chromosome Variation and Irish Origin -
http://www2.smumn.edu/uasal/DNAWWW/pdfs/Yirish.pdf

Iceland was colonised by the Gaels and as a result, Iceland has a higher percentage of the R1B gene than the rest of Scandinavia (around 50%) -

Estimating Scandinavian and Gaelic Ancestry in the Male Settlers of Iceland - http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v67n3/001900/001900.html

The following children are very Scottish / Irish looking. -





http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1247765,00.html-

"The geneticists produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that were genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic, around Wales, Scotland, Ireland and includes Galicia in Spain and the Basque region."

"Of the Celtic regions, by far the strongest correspondence is with Scotland,” said Bradley. “It corresponds exactly with language.” While that could be due to the Plantation of Ulster, Bradley said it was more likely due to something much older because the matches occur throughout the whole of Ireland and not just the north."

The following are two MEPS from the West of Ireland. -




These girls are Gaelic footballers from Galway, in the West of Ireland, and you don't need to be an anthropologist to notice that as a group they are homogonous in appearance.



Further examples of people from Ireland/Scotland/Wales/and the Basque Country -












Basque -





The vast majority of Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Manx and Cornish have hazel coloured hair. In fact this is true of most of North-Western Europe. Now ask yourself this. If there is such a thing as "Black Irish", then is there such a thing as "Black English" using the pictures below as a reference. It makes about as much sense to me. The first is the English National Team, the second is of a Gaelic Hurling Team from Munster in the South-West of Ireland.



Notes on Y-Chromosome Haplogroup R1b
http://home.comcast.net/~libpjr1/haplogroupI.htm


R1b (previously known as Hg1 and Eu18) is the most prolific haplogroup in Europe and its frequency changes in a cline from west (where it reaches a saturation point of almost 100% in areas of Western Ireland) to east (where it becomes uncommon in parts of Eastern Europe and virtually disappears beyond the Middle East). A R1b haplotype (a set of marker scores indicative of the haplogroup) is very difficult to interpret in that they are found at relatively high frequency in the areas where the Anglo - Saxon and Danish "invaders" originally called home (e.g., 55% in Friesland), and even up to 30% in Norway. Thus a R1b haplotype makes it very challenging to determine the origin of a family with this DNA signature.

During the Last Glacial Maximum, about 18,000 years ago, the people bearing the R1b haplogroup over wintered in Northern Spain (see map1). After the glacial retreat about 12,000 years before present, R1b began a migration to the north in large numbers (see map 2), and to the east in declining numbers.

R1b probably arrived in Spain from the east 30,000 years ago among the paleolithic or "old stone age" peoples considered to be aboriginal to Europe). It is believed that everyone who is R1b is a descendant in the male line from an individual known as "the patriarch" since his descendants account for over 40% of all the chromosomes of Europe. This haplogroup is characteristic of the Basques whose language is probably that of the first R1b, and who are genetically the closest to the original R1b population (which probably amounted to only a few thousand individuals). Source: Dr. David Faux http://www.davidkfaux.org/shetlandhaplogroupR1b

The members of R1b3 (or R-M269, formerly known as R1b) are believed to be the descendants of the first modern humans who entered Europe about 35,000-40,000 years ago ( Aurignacian culture). Those R1b3 forebearers were the people who painted the beautiful art in the caves in Spain and France. They were the modern humans who were the contemporaries - and perhaps exterminators - of the European Neanderthals. Source: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~d..._2003_R1b3.html

Hg R was the dominant lineage in Western Europe and then, pushed south by the descending Ice Age, to southwestern France and northwestern Spain to evolve into lineage Hg R1b. This area became a refuge for humans in Europe during the coldest millennia of the last Ice Age. As the climate warmed, the scattered clan Hg R1b followed the migration of game to the north and some of them reached what is now the British Isles about 15,000 years ago which at this time was connected to mainland Europe. It is believed they changed from hunter-gatherers to farmers in southeastern Europe about 8,000 years ago and in Britain about 4,000 years ago. As hunter-gathers became farmer’s permanent settlements ended this great migration period and over time Hg R1b settled predominately in what is known today as Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Denmark, England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Haplogroup map of Europe -
http://baz.perlmonk.org/haplogroups.jpg
352 posted on 04/08/2005 7:33:52 PM PDT by Eskura
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To: Eskura

Entertaining. (Very nice photos -- you certainly did a lot of work!) But 100% irrelevant.

I didn't say that the modern inhabitants of Ireland were Scandinavians. The red hair gene is robust.


353 posted on 04/09/2005 10:10:54 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Eskura; Happygal; RepubMommy

Well, now that you've brought Irish Hurling into the conversation....

And no redhead thread should go without a ping to RepubMommy.


355 posted on 04/11/2005 4:42:57 PM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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