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To: Earthdweller; TruthNtegrity; CouncilofTrent; Gerard.P; pro Athanasius
RW: And take down that damned medal in the Vatican celebrating the murder of the Huguenots, while you're at it.

GP: Maybe, when they apologize and convert.

EDW: Next you will say the Huguenots deserved to die because they were not Catholic

Until VERY recently, I had no problem with Catholics. I have Catholic ancestors (Irish) who were persecuted by Protestants as well as Protestant ancestors (Huguenot, Scotch-Irish) who were persecuted by Catholics. I ended up in the Evangelical camp because I read the Bible myself and found numerous variances between Scripture and present Catholic practice, but I respected the Catholic church for their moral stands. For instance, the Catholics were the first ones to raise a ruckus about abortion, before the Evangelicals realized what was going on -- and Catholics deserve credit for this.

I certainly never feared Catholics -- my mom's side of the family is Irish, after all. How could I be afraid of my own mother and cousins? And so I never understood the howling anti-Catholic paranoia and conspiracy theories that one sometimes encounters in the more hardcore segments of Evangelicalism.

In fact, I assumed that both Catholics and Protestants (everywhere but Ulster, at least), have finally figured out that peaceful persuasion and Christian tolerance ("Do unto others...", "Romans 14", etc) is the correct Christian way to handle doctrinal differences -- provided that public morality is upheld, of course. William Penn's noble experiment in religious tolerance, and the First Amendment forbidding a state church, seemed to have worked. Alexis de Tocqueville noted that the America he observed was such a great place, in large part because although Americans differed on our opinions regarding our duties to God himself, we were unified in our opinions regarding our duties to our fellow man. To put it another way, we had a strong Christian public morality that all denoniminations agreed on, and we handled our theological differences by peaceful discussion and persuasion instead of launching "jihads' against heretics as was the case back in Old Europe.

De Tocqueville, a Catholic, thought this was laudable and so do I. In fact, I thought that EVERY Christian, by this point in history, understood that this a better way, and I was perfectly content to work for a shared public morality with people with whom I respectfully disagreed. But in the last year, here at FreeRepublic I have heard Catholics justify or excuse some of the horrible persecutions of the past. Someone actually quoted Aquinas' justification of killing heretics a few months ago. Although he backed off from saying that HE would personally burn me, once gets the feeling that he'd prefer to. It's absolutely chilling. All of the sudden, the wild paranoia of militant, persecutory, conspiratorial, inquisitional Catholicism, that I used to recoil at, now seems to have a grain of truth. I'll never look at Catholicism so trustingly again.

Praise God for the Second Amendment.

252 posted on 01/07/2005 9:18:43 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: Rytwyng
In Catholic countries today, how much freedom do Protestants actually have to practice and prosletyze? It varies, but I believe there are still some pretty tough restrictions in some countries - particularly South America.

Also, listening to St Joseph Catholic radio, a very conservative outfit, I do get the impression these folks are much more upset about the existence of Protestants than about the existence of atheists or Jews or Muslims who don't accept Christ. Show after show on this radio network is aimed at trying to convert (or subtly condemn) Protestants. Very little, if any, "witness" is directed toward people who don't believe in God, or in Christ, in the first place. Seems to me there's definitely a strain of Catholicism that finds it infuriating that there are Christians who don't accept the Roman Catholic version of Christianity -- and this troubles them more than the millions of folks who haven't accepted Christ at all.

253 posted on 01/07/2005 10:55:00 AM PST by churchillbuff
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To: Rytwyng
" I have Catholic ancestors (Irish) who were persecuted by Protestants as well as Protestant ancestors (Huguenot, Scotch-Irish) who were persecuted by Catholics. I ended up in the Evangelical camp because I read the Bible myself and found numerous variances between Scripture and present Catholic practice, but I respected the Catholic church for their moral stands. I certainly never feared Catholics -- my mom's side of the family is Irish, after all. How could I be afraid of my own mother and cousins?"

This is a statement that I could have made also, word for word. (Mother's line goes back to southern Ireland..all Catholic) Are we related? Tee Hee.

"In fact, I assumed that both Catholics and Protestants (everywhere but Ulster, at least), have finally figured out that peaceful persuasion and Christian tolerance..."

Ditto that too.

"But in the last year, here at FreeRepublic I have heard Catholics justify or excuse some of the horrible persecutions of the past. . Someone actually quoted Aquinas' justification of killing heretics a few months ago. Although he backed off from saying that HE would personally burn me, once gets the feeling that he'd prefer to. It's absolutely chilling. All of the sudden, the wild paranoia of militant, persecutory, conspiratorial, inquisitional Catholicism, that I used to recoil at, now seems to have a grain of truth. I'll never look at Catholicism so trustingly again."

I have made this sad observation just recently myself. Stunning. Oddly, seeing both Catholics and Protestants up close and personal I see very little difference in the average person's practice of faith (not including the difference between Priests and Ministers) but I do see more "slams" if you will, directed at Protestants coming from the direction of the average Catholic. Sad. Christians should not throw bible bricks at each other and definitely should not insinuate that one or the other's ancestors deserved to die.

256 posted on 01/07/2005 5:23:10 PM PST by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants)
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To: Rytwyng
I have heard Catholics justify or excuse some of the horrible persecutions of the past. Someone actually quoted Aquinas' justification of killing heretics a few months ago. Although he backed off from saying that HE would personally burn me, once gets the feeling that he'd prefer to. It's absolutely chilling. All of the sudden, the wild paranoia of militant, persecutory, conspiratorial, inquisitional Catholicism, that I used to recoil at, now seems to have a grain of truth. I'll never look at Catholicism so trustingly again.

Rest easy. We're much more concerned with burning the heretics within the Church, and by the time we get done with them we'll have run out of wood and matches. ;^)

258 posted on 01/07/2005 8:43:03 PM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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