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To: Nanodik
"Were this to be brought to a court of law however, one might argue that by agreeing to the BOR that the states recognized particular individual rights"
But that is just what happened in Barron, the Supreme Court case I gave you a link to, and Marshall shot it down.

And I think you do realize that their rejecting Madison's limits on the states makes it ludicrous to say they didn't.

And that Jefferson advocated to Madison a BOR for the federal government, not a federal one for Virginia.

Break out a book and read up on the era ( Patrick Henry detested any and every power of the federal government over the states! Marshall and Madison argued with him and Mason over every federal power at the Virginia Ratification Convention), discussions on Free Republic got me to fit in an occasional book on our founding and founders.
It's so much more interesting a subject now that I'm a grandfather than it was when I was a schoolboy.

I just finished one on Madison's retirement after his presidency. His biggest frustration? -That people were disregarding what the meaning of the Constitution had been to those who had written and ratified it!

83 posted on 01/02/2004 6:46:29 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith
"no state shall violate the equal right of conscience, freedom of the press, or trial by jury in criminal cases"

Personally, I would have objected to the wording here not because it is too broad, as you suggest, but rather because it is too narrow. The fact that is says "no state" could be interpreted as to exempt the federal govt. My argument here may not be with your reading of the founding father's intentions, but with the founding fathers themselves. I have not read enough on the founding of the constitution and the BOR to say for sure, but the way I see it, if the BOR were to guarantee rights of the individual over all levels of govt, it would be an empowerment of the individual over govt rather than an empowerment of the federal govt over the states. I do believe that Jefferson would not have objected to binding all levels of government with one document. I am not sure others would have agreed.

As for the Barron case, the Supreme Court has had the duty of interpreting the constitution for two hundred some years now and in that time has made plenty of specious arguments. The recent case regarding McCain-Feingold is a perfect example of what judicial inbreeding will get you. I sincerely believe you can find far more convincing arguments in forums like this one than in the hollowed chambers of those black-robed megalomaniacs.

84 posted on 01/02/2004 10:07:29 PM PST by Nanodik (Libertarian, Ex-Canadian)
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